Badwater occluders vs Dustblow occluders

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Open Blade, Aug 11, 2009.

  1. Open Blade

    Open Blade L7: Fancy Member

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    Browsing through both maps, it looks like there is a totally different style to how each of those maps implements occluders.

    Badwater uses very thin (1 unit thick) occluders on the outsides/insides of walls while Dustbowl often places a thicker occluder within the wall. Also, Badwater doesn't often occlude both sides of a brush while Dustbowl usually does.

    Just curious as to the strategy that others here use on their occluders. Also, what helps you determine when to use one?

    I've tried my best to study how valve maps implement them and when I use a larger one, I try to calculate the cost of it by how many models I am blocking, their size also. I will use one if I am blocking a few large models or a good handful of smaller models, and I try to focus more around capture points or control points, as that is where usually you find more players bunched up.
     
  2. jpr

    aa jpr

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    Well, um, I've never used occluders before but I'm planning to with my contest entry, so...
    I'll use mat_wireframe to see if a lot of props are being rendered behind walls where they can't be seen, and put an occluder where the wall is, and if there're props on the other side too I would use a two sided occluder
     
  3. Micnax

    aa Micnax I maek map

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    Oh, the wonderful mysteries of Valve... always confusing us with their crazy ways of mapping.
     
  4. Open Blade

    Open Blade L7: Fancy Member

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    If only it were that simple my friend. There are several other factors that come into play. For example, if that wall you are talking about is part of a room which is sealed to it's own area via areaportals, you don't need that occluder. You would be doing the exact opposite of optimizing, since occluders themselves are a performance hit.
     
  5. Acegikmo

    aa Acegikmo

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    I've never really used occluders. You can do most optimization with hints and areaportals
     
  6. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Baring in mind that dustbowl is a port from TFC, certain optimisation difficulties come into effect, such as the ability to utilise areaportals to limit the rendition of detail items. It is often the case that an area may see into and beyond others for dustbowl, with detail on both sides of a wall.. dustbowl is prone (or would be prone) to specifically this issue.

    Badwater was in effect produced on the more recent and sophisticated source engine that has allowed the implementation of areaportals to be considered in the design process, as well as Badwater being constructed specifically for TF2, rather than a remake of a classic.

    Different render based circumstances occur for each map. Mostly due to layout and building shape/forms.

    Different solutions are applied for different issues that would have arisen in these maps. Such as occluders on both sides of a wall as apposed to one.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2009
  7. jpr

    aa jpr

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    Yes, but if there was an areaportal, the stuff behind the wall wouldn't be rendered, and I wouldn't even consider using an occluder there