Backburner health bonus has been removed

Discussion in 'Team Fortress 2 Talk' started by Armadillo of Doom, Jul 29, 2008.

  1. Armadillo of Doom

    aa Armadillo of Doom Group Founder, Lover of Pie

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    Making the new weapon effectively useless. The added health was there to compensate for the lack of air blast. But now? /me needs a drink

    [-]July 29, 2008 - Team Fortress 2 Update Released (7/29/2008)

    Updates to Team Fortress 2 have been released. The updates will be applied automatically when your Steam client is restarted. The specific changes include:

    Team Fortress 2


    Fixed team switches on Attack/Defense maps spamming the console

    Fixed the Kritzkrieg not working on servers with crits turned off

    Fixed some clipped localized strings in various in-game dialogs

    Fixed several cases where files were synchronously loaded while the game was running

    Fixed a shutdown crash in the material system

    Cached rendering of item model panels to improve performance, in particular while weapon selection was visible

    Added a gear symbol behind the health bar for Engineer buildings, in both target IDs and freeze panels

    Players killing themselves will now give a kill credit to the last enemy who damaged them

    Fixed grenades, rockets, and flamethrower being able to fire through grates at round starts

    Fixed players being killed and creating ragdolls during team switches

    Fixed various exploits and performance problems in CP_Badlands, CP_Well, and CP_Fastlane

    Removed health bonus from the Backburner
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  2. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    WTF!

    /MAJOR ANGRY FAIC

    [​IMG]

    Since the crits don't even work they've just screwed over my fav class.
     
  3. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    I was always very skeptical of the health in the first place.. since crits from behind made it a potent enough weapon. Though i do have to say, if a pyro caught you from behind, you were pretty much dead anyway.. i'd rather have the blast. Maybe now we'll see people taking a little more care when using the pyro class.
     
  4. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    You have to be perfectly behind them for the crits to work, they may have no idea you are there but if you burn them from anything more than 15 degrees to the side it doesnt work.
    What they've now done is swapped the standard weapon and the unlock around. The unlock is the original gun and the one you have to unlock and the one with the advantage is the one that everone has.....
     
  5. Armadillo of Doom

    aa Armadillo of Doom Group Founder, Lover of Pie

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    But now I can't survive long enough to get in position. The air blast is there to get rid of people after you'd gone in and messed them up. The extra health on the BB was compensation for not being able to so easily get away from the combat. I like to think I keep a fair mind about all the tweaks and changes for TF2, but this one strikes me as the most blatantly unjustified to date. And the Demo remains insanely overpowered :(
     
  6. Laz

    Laz L7: Fancy Member

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    bah I only loved the demoman back in the beta, when the grenades where still exploding on hit, even after a bounce.

    Less people gonna play pyro now, maybe they are just compensating for the to many players pyro is attracting. imo they should have just lowered it. 25 or so would seem appropriate
     
  7. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

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    As a pyro with a normal flamethrower, I never once won against a pyro with a backburner, which is why since I unlocked the thing I haven't gone back to the airblast once.

    As a pyro with a backburner, I have never had issues with the crits-from-behind working.

    The change was needed. The new weapon is still far from useless. Cry more.
     
  8. Armadillo of Doom

    aa Armadillo of Doom Group Founder, Lover of Pie

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    Clearly you weren't making good use of the airblast on the normal one. Health compensates for airblast, and vice-versa. Against a BB Pyro, do the flamethrower dance, and use the airblast after a few seconds. Then quick-switch to shot/flare gun and hit him while he's still confused about being so far away. No matter how many times it happens, I always get a little disoriented when I find myself suddenly knocked away or up in the air. This is bogus, and renders the Pyro incredibly weaker.
     
  9. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    ha, i always beat backburner pyros with the regular one...without using the blast...as a whole pyros that use the backburner are pyros that suck, so its easy to run circles around them

    just about all the people who used pyro alot before the update that i knew stuck with the regular one

    what I am sad about is the not being able to shoot through the gates...it made great pre-game entertainment to burn people who taunted in front of the gate
     
  10. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

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    A lot of skill in the pyro class comes from hit prediction. You have to lead with the flame when you're dueling another pyro. As a result I usually have come out on top in pyro v pyro fights, even against two pyros, by knowing this fact and always backpedalling. There's a huge difference in dps between using these tactics and not. That being said, I've started using the old flamethrower more and more as of late and this update makes me feel not so guilty doing so. Still, subtracting the entire bonus may be overkill... but I wish the second flamethrower had been different anyway, like a stream of napalm or something, so boring is the backburner *yawn*
     
  11. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

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    happly facwe :D

    Backburner pyro's were OP in my opinion. Taking out level three sentries? With a flamethrower supposed to be used from behind?

    Madness.
     
  12. Trypto

    Trypto L1: Registered

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    Yea, I agree. The back burner was way over powered to begin with. Especially because it always bugged out with the criticals and gave them from the front. Pyro's just don't die like they used to. I will say the complete removal of the health was overkill, but then again, crits from behind is rape, especially as an ambush tactic. Hopefully this will kill the pyro madness, as spy got a lot more difficult with at least 4 retards running around spraying nothing.

    And yea, napalm would have been waaayyyyy cooler.
     
  13. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    bah, you can take out level 3 sentries with the regular gun, I still say the 50 health made minimal difference, just prolonged the suffering a bit
    on a side note, Ive been trying out various suicide runs with pyro in the past week, its amazing the things you can do, especially when theres another distraction
     
  14. Brandished

    Brandished L5: Dapper Member

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    At least Valve fixed the MFPUB (multi-flag-pick-up-bug) that had been a problem for the CTF game variants since the beta. Now if only they would open up the scoring, sound system, and HUD to mappers we could make totally new game modes and I might actually be able to finish some of the concept maps I've tried to create for TF2. CTF is still the only flag game mode that really works, Attack/Defend can be made to mostly work (aside from no scoring system), the rest of them, not so much...
     
  15. Snipergen

    Snipergen L13: Stunning Member

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    As I said before, the pyro it's backburner was overpowered, and appearently I was right. I'm happy Valve has the balls to do this.
     
  16. Uriak

    Uriak L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    As I observed nearly every Pyro use the BB, there was certainly an issue. Mainly it was used to play as usual, but with 225 hp.
    Before the update, I played pyro and felt that ambushing solid classes as heavies and soldiers ended too often into double KO at best. BB was adressing this , but why +50 hp ?

    It has given a "noob" staint to this class (at least on our servers), to the point, I shifted to playing scout and spy. Average players tried pyro, but already good pyro players have been achieving absurd scores lately. And modification with the flame mechanics ended into rendering backpedaling useless into mirror fights.

    With this ends the cycle : I'll give a try to see if the new BB still plays its role as en ambush weapon, but I'm relieved it wont' be used to get a frontline storm class. If valve cares about pyro survavibility, they could stick with setting pyro at 200 hp in all cases. In the end the pyro's best friend is level design. (same for the scout imho)
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2008
  17. Vander

    Vander L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Good job Valve!
     
  18. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Agree, agree and sort of agree, but with regards to the soldier class.. atleast in the original the differences were soldier:100hp 200ap/pyro:100hp 150ap. 175hp for pyro in TF2 seems right for me and hopefully this nerf will stop pyro's just running straight at people. There are too many pyro's playing compared to other classes and mostly with the backburner. The extra health seemed to distract players from the fact that they are supposed to be behind the enemy to use the crit ability.

    On a side note, the flaregun is little more than a spam weapon. It has no real advantage in actual combat. The only time i can really use it is on the bridge on 2fort to light hidden spies and heavies, but does little more than garauntuee an assist as people set alight are killed barely a second later by more powerful alternative class weapons (rockets, headshot, pipes).

    With the crits from behind they do seem to have just turned the pyro into a less annoying version of the spy. Barely an instant kill but enough to get you running and probably die with afterburns. The pyro needs more forwards fire power. like a napalm grenade launcher. Or something that makes the pyro more than just fodder at anything other than close combat. The Napalm rocket launcher was an excellent supression weapon with a neat ability to send heat through walls. It is sorely missed.

    But as with the heavy and engineer, the pyro class simply suffers rediculously without support.

    I miss napalm grenades too.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2008
  19. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    The flaregun is an excelent weapon, setting people on fire instantly changes their mindset, they are fare less likely to run into the fray if you set them onfire before they even get there than if you don't. The flaregun might not be capable of killing someone without a few consutive hits which, lets face it, isnt going to happen but still the pyro is a support class, running in setting a load of people on fire (with either weapon) and running out again, even if no one gets killed they all have to seek health or a medic and are more wary of pushing forwards.
    Then on top of that the pyro's main job ISNT to get kills. They job of the pyro is to weaken up enemies for others to finish off or chasing after and finishing off weakened enemies. When I've played in scrims as pyro I get two or three times the number of assists than kills, why? because I'm a mop up class and a scare tactic. The pyro is a valued member of the team when you have teamplay in mind (which everyone unfortunately doesn't)
    One situation I've seen the flaregun is excelent at: I run around a corner to see a medic/heavy on the point we own so I pop a flare into each of them before they have a chance to shoot me and the medic who hasnt got a healing ray on him runs off to find a health pack. the heavy is now: worried because they don't yet know where I am, alone because his medic has run off and weakened because hes on fire. I nip around his flank and finish him off with the regular flamethower. I've done almost exactly this three or four times now.
    Another one that its good for is getting snipers out of the action quickly, it doesnt kill them but it gets rid of them. any shot they fire just after being ignited will not be as accurate and will likely miss and then when they descope they'll run for a health pack and so arent annoying anyone anymore. Another non-kill related use for the gun but still benefits the team.
    Many use the flaregun as a kind of spam weapon, but it cant really be a spam weapon since it fires so slow, and anyone who isnt considering where there flares are going is most likely one of the noob pyros who isnt interested in teamplay.

    At the end of this I'd just like to say: If you play for kills you're not playing properly. The game is TEAMfortress, you should play in a way that benefits your team's ability to capture/defend the point or flag and not to increase your score. infact I wish in some ways they'd completely remove the individual score boards and just have the MVP at the end of the rounds shown
     
  20. Zipok

    Zipok L2: Junior Member

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    Bleh.

    Why some people keep thinking that the BB is useless now? Think backwards, to the time when pyros did NOT have the airblast. The backburner is that same flamethrower all pyros used back then, with the extra addition to grill anyone if you manage to hit their backs, meaning that if you pull out a good ambush, you will win the situation.

    Imo the major problem with pyros back then was that you could barely kill someone even if you got their backs, now the problem is solved with the backburner. With the air blast, you have better survivability but less instant kills from behind. Sounds like equal to me.

    Edit: I totally agree with Youme on his post just above this, the flare gun is one of the most (if not the most) teamplay oriented weapon this game has, with the exception of the medigun. And it is extremely fun too! Also, I agree that the pyro's role is more of a psychological, and crowd controlling one, instead of being a major killing machine. Pyro kills only when the odds are completely against his enemy. The pyro is a coward, an annoying little bastard. But we all love him. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2008