MVM atomgrad A6A

By Languid

  1. Languid

    Languid L5: Dapper Member

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    The bots have taken everything. Our only hope is this aging Siberian launch site. Maybe we can nuke bot HQ, or maybe we should just use it to leave this godforsaken planet.



    Ok this map is eeeeeeeh. we do not have long to get layout down pat. Most the work will go into the pop file once i have something acceptable. Is there a way to have multiple difficulty pop thingees for custom MvM? That would help with the 2hard problems. Give me your images of launch sites and soviet municipal buildings.

    It is really open. I like it, but may need cover or bot hypnosis to work. Start is most dull section. How do you make an interesting entrance for the botters? it seems almost inescapably dull, them invuln lining up to fall off a small cliff into an open, flat area.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  2. Faux Rhinoceros

    aa Faux Rhinoceros Also known as Dr. Element

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    I believe you can pack multiple pop files, which will then be selectable by the server admin.

    Say you have mvm_mapname_normal and mvm_mapname_expert01, it should start out by loading the first one, and let you switch to the expert one with the command "tf_mvm_popfile expert01"
     
  3. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    My god that finale is big. The curved basin around the hole is cool.
     
  4. Tarry H Sruman

    Tarry H Sruman Large Orphanage Proprietor

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    The proper term is "hydro dish"
     
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  5. Languid

    Languid L5: Dapper Member

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    Finale shrunk a touch and cover added. Building tweaked slightly. Start has bit more holding power.

    New pics and a dl link are up. This is gonna be real hard to finish on time, but goddamn its pretty fun to map for MvM
     
  6. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    Okay i think its pretty decent.

    First wave: those soldier bots are too hard. As Turbo said, they could be standard soldiers easily. I think the wave would also work fine without them.

    Second wave: It's really hard to get the tank because there's always someone swarming you. I think maybe if the gap between the bowmen and the scouts were a bit bigger you'd have more time to pile damage on the tank before it could get too far into the map.

    I think the first area is problematic because scouts, pyros, and other classes that need space to maneuver can't really, all they can do is duck backwards and forwards into the area. I think a tunnel through the raised area might help- also maybe a good place for a med healthpack. Also there's a dumb small gap between two ramps and i kept dying in there.

    Second area needs a route up. Maybe a jump route or something.
     
  7. TR0N

    TR0N L1: Registered

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    Not sure if this is the right place to submit an opinion about the map, but the voting site sent me here, so I figure why not:

    If there were a word I could use to describe this map, it would be awkward. It's kind of hard to describe, but it's like while this place is pretty cool, and there's some great ideas in there, it just... Doesn't quite come together in a way that works.

    In the first area where the bots come down, the group I played with found it kind of hard to pick out good sentry spots. With that little building right between the two main areas the bots can come from, half of them kept getting past without issue with our sentry placed on the left side. But then on the right, there's no real place to set the sentry at all since the little ledge is blocked off by cover. The best you can do is set it on the ground and Wrangle away.

    Meanwhile the close-range classes like Pyro have no real method of escape once they approach the bot spawn. You just run in, set a couple bots on fire, airblast them back, and then try to escape before getting ripped apart by Scattergun or Huntsman fire.

    But then there's the second area, in the warehouse or whatever it is: I actually really like the layout of it, with the multiple levels and the subtle little ramps here and there. It's an interesting area that lends itself well to pushing the bomb carrier back and buying yourself some time. But sort of like the first area, it's way too open, with way too little cover for any classes to really get in there and hold position or push the bomb back. Sure, you can take the alternate route of the stairs by the Hydro dish, but that path is so awkward and roundabout to take that by the time you get in there, the bots will already be approaching the dish. It would be a really diverse area with lots of ways to attack OR defend, but for now it's just way too hard to get back into once the bots have come through.

    I didn't find too much issue with the drop site, other than the staircase on the left being really tedious to approach if the bomb carrier decides to take that path. And by the upgrade station, how there's that little building, then the light pole and the crate to keep bots from just turning and spawncamping you? It's just a little thing, but could you pull that tall crate back a little bit so you can actually see it when you're walking by? Too many times I was in a hurry to kill some bots and rounded that corner, only to run straight into that infernal crate and get stuck for a second before I wound around it again.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 9, 2013
  8. Raider

    Raider L1: Registered

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    D:

    Quick opinion on the map overall:

    Was just playing this map. Joined in the middle of the 1st wave and D:
    The amount of bots in the map is too much to handle, in my opinion. The bots have so many ways to put out damage, and it's a little much against 6 players.

    Besides that, the aesthetics and layout is absolutely incredible. The dish at the end is amazing, and it gives you so many options. A ton of bots, but a great map overall.

    EDIT: Major change in opinion


    After being horrified about the amount of bots, I beat it with a random team and started to appreciate the map.
    The amount of bots is absolutely horrendous, which can be a good thing. Why? Because you actually have to work together, which is why I wanted to play MvM in the first place. Also, the map is extremely open, giving you a bevy of options. While this map may be too open for its own good, it still makes for a helluva fun time.

    Will vote on official thread later:
    Gameplay: 8 (really hard, really fun)
    Waves: 5 (...)
    Aesthetics: 6 (Cool, but skybox sticks out a bit too much)
    Technical: 7 (Some lag rendering launch area)

    Definitely gets my vote.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  9. Lancey

    aa Lancey Currently On: ?????

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    Bots don't obey paths, can build in inaccessible places, detailing's bad, lots of steps you can't walk up, waves are annoying and unfun, just generally awful 0/10
     
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  10. Languid

    Languid L5: Dapper Member

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  11. henke37

    aa henke37

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    The clipping is really really poor. All the trim is either in the way or creating micro platforms. And there are spots where you can't jump despite it being obviously low enough.

    There is even a way to sneak out of bounds with a sentry jump. It is the dark roof right next to the high exit to the last area. From there on it is just a matter of falling off the ground and into the void. Did you know that you can shoot thru displacements, but the robots can't shoot back?
     
  12. Faux Rhinoceros

    aa Faux Rhinoceros Also known as Dr. Element

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  13. Idolon

    aa Idolon the worst admin

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    Gameplay: 3
    Your layout has potential, but for the moment it doesn’t work very well. It is very overscaled, and there are not nearly enough good defensive positions. There are more high, powerful routes that the bots have to the hatch than the players have to the first area of the map. There was a distinct lack of cover in the map. High ground should be given to the players to stay on and attack bots below them, but the bots have to run right over the high ground to get to the hatch.

    Waves: 3
    I don’t know if anyone has ever gotten past wave 3. You use scattergun scouts an awful lot, which are actually fairly powerful enemies: if they get close enough, they can take a player out in a couple of shots. In fact, most of your bots are relatively powerful - remember that it’s okay to have weak bots too! Most successful pop files have “fodder” bots along with very large enemies that are the real threat. Take a page from their book.

    Aesthetics: 7
    The aesthetics, while sometimes a not executed greatly, had some good ideas. The dish + rocket area is actually pretty imposing, very much a landmark of the map. Your lighting is also very nice for a nighttime map. Scaling was a bit off in some spots (especially the building where bots came from), and some props stuck out as being in weird spots (one box of dynamite sitting out as a stepping stone). Besides these few errors, you’ve got some pretty okay detailing.

    Technical: 7
    -Sentry spots where sentry buster cannot access
    -Bots didn't always take the right path (did not witness, so no points taken off)
    -Able to be killed in spawn

    Full Judgement PDF
     
  14. henke37

    aa henke37

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    So there is a second way to leave the map in the final area?

    I found a third way when i actually checked the clipping brushes. It's that suspended hallway in the beginning area, looking towards the smokestack.
     
  15. Spacek531

    Spacek531 L4: Comfortable Member

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    There is. Dr. Element and I found that when we were just checking out the map.

    1st area: the covered walkway (sentry jump)

    2nd area: the one sloped roof(sentry jump), walking through the rocks at spawn
     
  16. Languid

    Languid L5: Dapper Member

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    A stunning example of why clipping should not be left to the panic crunch time!

    I have exams and generally my mapping spirit is crushed, but I will be working on this a bit over summer. First 4 waves or so can probably be split up into more (yes and made less difficult), and I have some ideas for bigass layout changes.

    Thanks for all the help, see y'all next time!

    EDIT: Also thanks for finding those clipping errors. I could pop out a quick fixed version if anyone is really jonesin' but I am guessing it will be fine left well alone till the reboot is on the road.
     
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  17. Faux Rhinoceros

    aa Faux Rhinoceros Also known as Dr. Element

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    Your map is the most played map in the contest with over twice as many hits as most of the other entries. I'm sure there are lots of people who'd be interested in that :)
     
  18. Languid

    Languid L5: Dapper Member

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    See I saw the stats for the picture clicks and thought that was just down to mine being first in the list, but really?

    Sheeeeee-it, this happened with clocktower in the cp contest as well, and it was fairly abysmal too! Something I do seems to attract people who come here solely from the blog/news list. I would say I do the money shots (the eponymous clocktower building) but atomgrad feels pretty goshdurn ugly to me.

    but aye, I may make a clipp'd n pop file fixed version. mvm_atombad_a7, anyone?
     
  19. Melvin D Engineere

    Melvin D Engineere L4: Comfortable Member

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    Got a video of your map:
    tf2: mvm_atomgrad_a6a

    One problem I forgot to bring up earlier was the fact that support robots don't die when the wave ends. After 3:11, look for the blue laser sight from the sniper.

    I've already brought up the roof clipping problem on another thread, but given the severity of the problem, I need to bring it up again:
    http://youtu.be/p3yYBE-maBI
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013
  20. TravisTouchdown

    TravisTouchdown L2: Junior Member

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