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artpass The General

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by The General, Jul 19, 2010.

  1. The General

    The General L1: Registered

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    My art pass map takes place inside a mine, but it is underground! So my map focuses on a cave them.

    But I also have a problem if anyone can help with?
    Recently, during the set up time, when it gets to 1:10 the Red team win for some reason!
    I checked the outputs to see if anything was wrong, everything looked fine!
    Also after this happens the teams do not switch, for some reason!:O

    If anyone can help with this problem, that would be great!
     
  2. Efhan

    Efhan L2: Junior Member

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    VARIATION! Don't use the same brick texture over the whole map!
    On the bright side, I like your BLU spawn, the entrance to C point and the C point. Just change the bricks.
     
  3. Ninja

    Ninja L1: Registered

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    i cant help with your problem, but i can say, your using that brick texture alot, try to add structure to the buildings, not just retexture them, and maybe the buildings are hollowed into the rock of the cave? Come up with something REALLY original :D
     
  4. Infi^

    Infi^ L1: Registered

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    You're often misplacing your textures.
    For example, using wooden materials where brick and mortar/cement would be much more suitable, and vice versa.
    It's not often that you have glass windows embedded into a wooden structure, therefore I suggest changing the wood to a concrete/brick texture instead.

    Secondly, use the already given layout to your advantage. You already have the bare bones layout handed to you on a plate, so you shouldn't feel threatened when adding extra detail brushes. For instance support struts, be it metal or wooden, to existing areas. Using detail brushes often helps to break up rather flat surfaces and pulls the surfaces in question out from a bland and boring two dimensional situation, into a more complex looking three dimensional scenario. Using detail brushes also gives you the opportunity to change the use of textures in a much more subtle way.

    You see, when you have a simple six sided brush, if you decide to use a brick texture on the side faces, followed by a ceiling or floor texture on the top or bottommost faces, the changes and seams will most likely become very obvious to the players. This is where you can hide those changes behind detail brushes, like the previously mentioned support struts.
     
  5. The General

    The General L1: Registered

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    Thanks for your replies!
    I have taken your advice, and I changed some of the brick textures.
    I have also started making the building look ling they have been swallowed up by the cave.
    [​IMG]

    I have not solved my problem yet! But I have got around two months to work it out!
     
  6. psihomir

    psihomir L4: Comfortable Member

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    Maybe you accidentally touched up some entity's settings, or even removed one of the game rules entities? What I'd do would be to open the original map (download it again just to make sure), disable all visgroups except point entities, select all & copy, then delete all point ents from your map and paste. Only downside is that it'd remove any lights & decals you'd placed since you started.
     
  7. Infi^

    Infi^ L1: Registered

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    I would really avoid using an cave like environment for two major reasons. Firstly is that quite a few people are also doing the same. The second being that brickwork buildings do not suit a cave-like environment.
     
  8. psihomir

    psihomir L4: Comfortable Member

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    It's actually just me and Swordz so far from what I've seen. Even if there were more people though I don't think it should matter, I mean it's absolutely out of the question for anyone to enter this with a unique theme, just look at how many villages there are already. Just make sure yours is the best and that's it. And let's not forget how much variety a cave level offers to the mapper - you can have a mining level, a volcanic one, a jungle one, even a frozen arctic cave. Just because it's underground doesn't mean it'll end up like every other underground level.

    And the brick textures can always be changed.
     
  9. Infi^

    Infi^ L1: Registered

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    Erm then there's definitely myself, Kinky and I believe one or two others.
    I think it does matter to an extent, the rules for this contest even states that the participants should try to make their own work stand out as much as possible.
    Sadly whilst it's true that there a lot of other people using the industrial and village settings, it's sort of their own fault for simply adding more to that already existing pile. This is a contest after all, and since the chances of winning are already low for each participant, using a very common theme isn't going to start helping those chances really.

    Obviously people will try to do their best, so that's sort of out of the question if you try to use that to make your own work stand out. I would think it's kind of expected already.
    Hence why I said just keeping an eye out to avoid using similar things will help you keep a unique look to other people's work as much as possible. There will be similarities granted, yet people can try to minimize them though. After all, you're only hurting yourself and those mappers if your work looks relatively the same. This would obviously hinder your chances of your map standing out, especially if it was one of your selling points for your map. As in what made your map special and different from the other entries, if these other maps already have most of these unique details it becomes a rather "So? This, this and this other map all do/have the same thing too..." scenario.

    Secondly I think the industrial theme is something he seems to be working towards, again why I said that a cave doesn't seem to be the best setting for what he seems to be trying to achieve. It kind of forces you to change what you've already textured and detailed for, in terms of settings.

    Anyway, let's not hi-jack this thread any further shall we?
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2010
  10. Swordz

    Swordz L5: Dapper Member

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    Well it's impossible to have different themes, but you can have variations of it, i was making a desert-rock cave while psihomir was making a normal rock cave. It changes completely.
     
  11. Infi^

    Infi^ L1: Registered

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    I strongly disagree, but please. I don't mind having this conversation, but I'd rather have it elsewhere other than inside someone else's progress thread. Considering the conversation is barely, if at all, related to his map.

    Thanks.
     
  12. psihomir

    psihomir L4: Comfortable Member

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    I don't think it's hijacking, considering we're discussing his theme, and anyway it was you who made the first post in that discussion. And I still disagree with your opinion - I find it strange that you took the time to write such a long reply to my previous post but somehow ignored the examples I gave on how an underground map can look completely different in at least 4 ways.

    Just because it's underground doesn't mean it'll look the same, that's like claiming that the desert and alpine themes are the same because they're outdoors.
     
  13. Infi^

    Infi^ L1: Registered

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    Okay, look. I did type up a pretty long post here, that is until I had realised that you would have managed to cause me to start something I really wanted to prevent. Getting into a long drawn out and pointless debate.

    Quite frankly I'm not open to debate about it, it's my advice. Deal with it. You trying to prove me wrong will just result in a huge waste of time for yourself, myself and any other person reading it. You may not think so, but believe me, it does.

    I don't think we're discussing his theme, I think we're discussing some pseudo debate about uniqueness, which has nothing to do with his thread. I think two underground maps will become similar because of the limits put in place after making that choice, you don't. End of story. If someone between us two doesn't draw the line on this, the thread will just play out in a fashion similar to:
    "Well I disagree with you because...."
    "Well I disagree with you disagreeing with me because...."
    "Well I disagree with you disagreeing about me disagreeing with you because...."

    ....and it goes on so much that with each post it gets so pointless and tedious, it just loses meaning and becomes arguing for the sake of arguing. Especially when all this would have started out over a small harmless piece of advice, that you shouldn't have really tried to kick up a fuss about in the first place.

    So after all that, I still maintain what I said originally said that A) I think you, The General, should try and avoid placing your map underground unless you can really justify it, and B), especially if you wish to use an industrial brick work buildings type of theme.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2010
  14. psihomir

    psihomir L4: Comfortable Member

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    You shouldn't make arguable statements if you're not willing to go into an argument afterwards. I'm not even sure what you're getting at - every time you just type up a really long post that basically says "I don't want to argue". Kind of contradictory.

    You still didn't give a valid reason for why he shouldn't do an underground map - at least not one to counter the perfectly valid arguments I gave on the previous page. I'm inclined to believe you're just trying to get him to quit because you want less competition for yourself. I'm not trying to start a flamewar with this last sentence but I just can't see any other reason why you would try to discourage him from using what is so far the most original general theme in the contest (based on the number of people using it)
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2010
  15. Infi^

    Infi^ L1: Registered

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    Oh my God are you actually serious?
    Wow, are you like some kind of unaware troll? Like seriously?

    Arguable statements? You mean like this thing called an opinion which everyone's entitled to, and I've already explained to you is pointless to debate about? Sure. You're like that annoying person that doesn't understand, yet at the same time, won't leave others alone and keeps arguing without any real purpose behind it.

    What you don't seem to realise here is that I've done one thing. Gave some advice. Don't make an underground map when quite a few other people are already doing it. When underground cave maps are rather hard to differentiate from other underground cave maps. For instance, things like being practically forced to do most of the heavy lighting manually, so you'll need a lot of fixtures to make sense for that manual lighting, meaning a lot of themes that do not suit lots of light fixtures and rely on the light environment doing most of the heavy lighting become unsuitable, I.E deserts, natural jungles, natural anything. Your choice of official and suitable textures will most likely be rather limited, and most of all and probably the most important one. His existing theme doesn't compliment an underground scenario, at all. As I've already stated.

    You on the other hand have disagreed with me, which I have no problem with, but then you've tried to get me into a debate about it. Which I've told you time and time again is pointless. I'm not being contradictory, you just don't seem to grasp the concept of opinions and that arguing about who is right, and such is pointless, rude, time wasting, and tedious.

    Like many that just assume, your inclination is wrong since I've decided to change my theme after the first other two people decided to do a Mayan theme. Judging by the way this contest is going, there will be about twenty to thirty or more by the end of August.

    Yeah, sure. I really believe that. You really haven't started any controversy have you?

    You mean like the other four to five people also doing exactly Mayan themes? Compared to the other themes that can have different variations and takes on them? Think about that for a moment. How long is the "Mayan" theme really going to be unique hmmm? Mayan is Mayan. There's not really many takes you can do on it.
     
  16. drp

    aa drp

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    thats enough. the argument stops here. just drop it please.
     
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  17. psihomir

    psihomir L4: Comfortable Member

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    As I said, I didn't want to start anything even close to a flamewar, so I will. I just want to clear something up in regards to Infidelz's last paragraph - initially you were referring to the underground theme in the post that started the whole argument, and now you switched to the Mayan one. And there really aren't more than 4 people (including you) who've claimed that theme so far, so statistically speaking it actually is the least used one for now :) (feel free to reply in a PM if you don't want to continue this here.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2010
  18. Infi^

    Infi^ L1: Registered

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    :facepalm: For goodness sake. Even after DrPepper's post? I don't know if that part I bolded was intentional or not, but it would have been avoided either way if you had just dropped it. I want to see, and possibly comment on what The General does next, nothing else. You've taken it so far already, I just want you to stop commenting on it and bringing it up, why can't you see that?

    No, I haven't switched. I've always been planning to do an Aztec cave theme, or at least I was. If that wasn't your point then I guess you may have missed mine. Certain themes, such as Mayan and underground caves will not give you much room for creativity. Meaning very similar maps and less unique submissions. I'm not going over it again to be honest. Leave it be.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2010
  19. The General

    The General L1: Registered

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    LOL! I can't beleive what has just happened! =0
    Any way back on topic!

    I noticed a few of you were discussing abot my theme. So after an hour on Paint.Net I created this...
    [​IMG]

    Hopefully this should show my theme a bit better!

    More updates coming soon...
     
  20. The General

    The General L1: Registered

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    UPDATE
    I have done some more work to the red base.
    As the red base is supposed to be carved into the rock, I decided to give an unfinished feeling to the red base.
    For example, un-tiled walls and equipment lying around the place.

    [​IMG]


    More updates coming soon...


    P.S I will also like to thank psihomir with my problem! So THANKYOU!!!
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2010