Arroyo

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by lustygoat, Mar 29, 2009.

  1. lustygoat

    lustygoat L2: Junior Member

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    This is a 3-stage payload map, still alpha.

    --

    a19 notes:

    -2nd pass detailing 1-1, adding custom rock materials
    -some minor detailing elsewhere
    -removed a ledge to make 2-2 less defensible
    -added a railing to make 3-2 less defensible

    a18 notes:
    -optimization to 1-2
    -added nobuild to elevator in 3-2
    -expanded interior of cap point in 2-2
    -added structure to bridge in 3-2 and tweaked pathways around it
    -added side room spawn exits for red in 3-2
    -tiny bit more detailing in 2-2
    -removed 30 seconds from time gained by capturing 1-1
    -removed railing on balcony near the end of 1-2

    a17 notes:
    -some detailing to 2-2 and 3-1
    -optimization around 2-2 and all of 3
    -removed some brushwork and replaced it with models
    -attempt to fix the cart killing people randomly on some servers
    -reduced time gained from capturing 2-1 by 60 seconds
    -moved the final capture point slightly back, shortening the path a small amount

    a16 notes:
    -added cover along bridge in 2-3
    -decreased time gained from capping 2-2 by 30 seconds
    -minor fixes

    a15 notes:
    -broke apart ground between 2-1 and 2-2 to make it easier to attack
    -added side path into cap point structure at 2-2
    -minor fixes and lighting brightness increases

    a14 notes:
    -integrated previous version's changes to 3-1 and 3-2 into the complete map
    -significant redesign of 2-2 and 2-3
    -small redesign of start of 2-1

    a13c notes:
    -shorter respawn times
    -attempt to prevent cart from killing people
    -attempt to address door problems
    -nonsolid railing fixed
    -nobuilds and player clips in problem areas
    -added shortcut for attackers that opens for 2nd stage
    -moved final point deeper inside final room

    a12c notes:
    -complete redesign of the third segment (isolated in a12c for testing)

    a11 notes:
    -optimizing and removing waterindicies so they won't overflow as I detail the rest of the map
    -tweaks to b2 and b3 areas
    -tiny bit more detailing

    a10 notes:
    -integration of all previous segments into one full map
    -first pass detail complete in first segment
    -first pass detail underway (but still spotty) in second and third segments
    -first pass 3d skybox underway, still quite rough on some things
    -very rough first pass of clip brushes, spectator cams, etc.
    -other minor changes to:
    --3rd stage cart path
    --2nd stage red defenses
    --3rd stage first area blu spawn
    -needs in particular:
    --engineer feedback
    --gameplay feedback
    --performance feedback in 1st stage
    -other plans:
    --custom models for 3 things (turbine, crane, bucketwheel)
    --as few custom textures as I need to still get the 3rd stage looking right

    a9c notes:
    -third stage still isolated for gameplay testing
    -moved 1/2 of red spawn points to another spawn room on other side of final point
    -shortened bridges into final point, other small tweaks
    -completely redesigned first point & area around it

    a8c notes:
    -3rd stage isolated for gameplay testing
    -removed topmost balcony level in first segment
    -closed off some dark corners in the first segment
    -added second path from blu spawn into the first segment
    -tweaks to upper generator level in first segment
    -lowered balcony level inside second segment
    -added one-way door that opens out from final room to cut off one angle of attack
    -fixed some holes that led people into the bad place

    a7b notes:
    -this is the 2nd stage of the map isolated for gameplay testing
    -tweaks to buildings on either side of B1
    -added protection from snipers when entering the B2 open space
    -more space on left side for attackers in B3
    -broke up space within B3 a bit

    a7c notes:
    -complete redesign of the 3rd stage, isolated for gameplay testing

    a6 notes:
    -many changes to round A, intended to make it a little easier to defend the first point and harder to defend the second point
    -made side routes to round A second point much more obvious, added midcap gates, and added a side route directly from blu spawn to the left side route gate
    -made it much more difficult for red to flank back towards blu spawn in round A
    -set back round A red spawn a bit from the cap point
    -added a small length of track at the start of round B (and added some more time) to make the first cap more interesting
    -changed B2 somewhat to try to make it more defendable
    -changed B3 somewhat to try to make it easier to attack
    -added a midcap gate for attackers between B1 and B2 once B1 is capped
    -some minor changes to round C but still needs evaluation and potential redesign
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2010
  2. Westerhound

    Westerhound L5: Dapper Member

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    As I said, here are some glitches I found (with some fancy Photoshopping):

    [​IMG]
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  3. lustygoat

    lustygoat L2: Junior Member

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    Thanks Westerhound. That door one is really weird... wonder what could be going on there.
     
  4. Icarus

    aa Icarus

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    Did I mention how awesome this map is?

    I can't wait to see it detailed (and balanced), it's totally awesome
     
  5. ChronoTriggerFan

    ChronoTriggerFan L7: Fancy Member

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    Heres some of my opinions on the layout:
    [​IMG]
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  6. lustygoat

    lustygoat L2: Junior Member

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    Thanks Icarus, I hope to get another gameplay test in (next week?) and then hopefully start detailing and testing one segment at a time after that.

    Chrono, thanks for the detailed feedback! Point by point:

    First segment, first cap - I'll try lowering the ledge on the attackers' right a bit. I've taken out the bridges in this area as well, they weren't useful.

    Between first and second caps - I don't want to route the attackers straight into the heart of the defenders, but it's definitely a problem area you're pointing at. I'm going to try this, making it so players can be looking RIGHT AT the doors they should go through when they're standing at the first cap:

    [​IMG]

    I've made the right hand route lead to a stronger attacking position that's much harder for the defenders to backtrack through. The left hand route will hopefully get more takers this way as well, because it's always led to a fairly strong position but attacking teams consistently don't push into it.

    For the second segment, the first area, I'm going to put some kind of structure in the middle of the concrete stuff (across from the elevated shed) that will hopefully break up the space and make circulating in this area a little more interesting.

    The second area of the second segment is very strange; attackers are always "OMG it's sooooo far to go" and then they blitzkrieg through it in 2 minutes tops. It needs something to help defense focus and rally behind. I'm not sure what to do about it yet.

    For the third area, the screenshot where you suggest that space should be more accessible for red and less for blu... are you sure you don't mean the other way around? To my mind blu needs a little help in this segment and I was planning on using this spot to help them flank in towards the cap point.

    The third segment overall, I agree is still a complete mess. :D
     
  7. Westerhound

    Westerhound L5: Dapper Member

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    Chronos third pic: I think there could be a one-way-door here, as any RED (dunno about Heavy) can jump up to that ledge by using the crates
     
  8. Nosher

    Nosher L4: Comfortable Member

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    Mate,

    I really enjoyed playing this tonight - I ain;t a great lover of PL, but at times you can see that this map is a 'worker'..... (in UK speak, it will be an enjoyable map to play)

    I like the bridge over the top and could imagine how good that will look when you detail it out.....

    Yep., the brushes are chunky, but as it is an alpha - I can see you are trying to get the gameplay issues bottomed out....

    A few screenies I grabbed....

    This was the door I was 'gibbering at'....

    [​IMG]

    No need to explain this one.....

    [​IMG]

    This next one peed me of a bit as you couldn't get though it......would be nice if you could get thru from both ways....

    [​IMG]

    Will look forward to the next version m8!
    Nosh.
     
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  9. lustygoat

    lustygoat L2: Junior Member

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    Thanks Nosher, I will hit all those things as I make another pass through the map.
     
  10. taraph75

    taraph75 L1: Registered

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    I would be interested in playtesting this map on our tf2newbs.com payload rotation server. We are running a playtest on 4/28/09 at 7pm Pacific time. If would like to attend, I can run this map and you can get some feedback.
     
  11. lustygoat

    lustygoat L2: Junior Member

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    Taraph: currently I've ripped apart some parts of the map to detail it and try to make a few points more fun, and I don't think it will be playtest ready by then. I'd love a playtest sometime though, do you guys do this regularly? Maybe 1-2 weeks from now would be an awesome time to test it.
     
  12. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    I like this map but I think it needs a few fixes.

    The area above the generator while cool might be too large. It seemed to detract alot of attention away from the cart path. Maybe you can leave a path there but close it down alot with glass walls or soemthing so players can see the whole area but not have access.

    It just seemed like half the game took place up there and the cart would only make it half way.
     
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  13. lustygoat

    lustygoat L2: Junior Member

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    Thanks Sgt., I'll take a look at the map and at the gameday sourceTV recording... already though I'm pretty sure I'm going to take out the topmost level of balconies. I also think I will open the gaps between the cart level and the level above.
     
  14. Ravidge

    aa Ravidge Grand Vizier

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    I know its an alpha but:
    http://213.115.191.55/~ravidge/feedback/pl_arroyo_a8c0004.jpg
    Come on. There are great handrail models to use (you even have them in the blue spawn), this isn't TFC :)
    The map could be made a lot more interesting if you take some time and place a few props. Use A Boojum Snarks prop library, it's excellent.

    http://213.115.191.55/~ravidge/feedback/pl_arroyo_a8c0005.jpg
    These 2 rails pissed me off when I was both defence and offence, just lower them or as I said, make them models.

    http://213.115.191.55/~ravidge/feedback/pl_arroyo_a8c0006.jpg
    http://213.115.191.55/~ravidge/feedback/pl_arroyo_a8c0007.jpg
    Very long sightlines, Snipers dominate this. Defence has no chance of advancing towards the cart if it has stopped somewhere ahead.
    You can solve this in many ways: Breaking it up a little and give a place where offensive engineers can setup SG and teleporters. Curve the track more. One-way gates for offence. A not so damn flat track :) ... Just a few things that could give blu better chances (not saying you should add all of that, but look at your map and try to find what fits the best).


    I actually enjoy playing in dev textured maps more than whatever-this-style-you're-using-is-called. But that is just my own preference.
     
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  15. lustygoat

    lustygoat L2: Junior Member

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    I think the problems are more that the layout isn't right than anything else. The sightlines are definitely on the open side... I dunno, the whole thing feels kind of unfocused still. It seems really hard to defend the first point and TOO hard to attack the last point. It just doesn't seem as much fun as it should be.

    As far as dev textures, props, etc. the stuff played today is alpha... it might as well be dev textured. The detailed areas are beginning to look more like this:

    [​IMG]
     
  16. captainAngry

    captainAngry L7: Fancy Member

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  17. lustygoat

    lustygoat L2: Junior Member

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    Cool, I'd try to stop by but I'm not going to be near my PC for much time tomorrow or Tuesday.
     
  18. captainAngry

    captainAngry L7: Fancy Member

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    That's fine. Any time you catch me on steam we can test the map with you. Just send me a message.
     
  19. captainAngry

    captainAngry L7: Fancy Member

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    Played this map for a good amount of time today. It seems to play really well. The second point is pretty hard to cap but with a good push it is doable. You might want to figure out a way to give blue more of an advantage on this only because this is supposed to be stage two of a three stage.

    The only common complaint I heard was there weren't any good places to build sentrys,

    All in all, the area played well. Can't wait to see the whole thing.

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. lustygoat

    lustygoat L2: Junior Member

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    bump for major update