CP armsfactory

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Ctrl Alt Defeat, Aug 23, 2014.

  1. Ctrl Alt Defeat

    Ctrl Alt Defeat L1: Registered

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    Welcome to cp_armsfactory! My second map in TF2 (Just ignore that first one though). It's a gravelpit style Attack/Defend map, with a pyramid layout for points. It also features a laser that fires off every minute (subject to change), frying anyone in the way. Come try it out and give some feedback, since I feel like this map has some real potential!

    Thanks

    Edit: fixed download link

    TODO:

    Skybox (obviously)
    Details (props and such)
    Additional buildings/obstacles
    Balancing
    Additional/Movement of Health/Ammo

    8/30/14- Screenshots currently outdated, will update later today
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
  2. Another Bad Pun

    Server Staff Another Bad Pun bird of prey

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    this is a terrifying concept
    [​IMG]
     
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    Last edited: Aug 24, 2014
  3. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    Hey, I did a quick run around for you! These are just my initial impressions, and just based off of what I've seen work and not work in the past. Running around it is never as good as having a full server playing on it, so get it in a gameday!

    First, I'd recommend uploading your map to TF2Maps directly rather than mediafire or any other hosting service. They can be a pain at times. Plus we offer it here, so might as well take advantage of it! :)

    Not a huge issue, but one you might want to take care of, on loading the map I noticed a bunch of vphysics errors in the console:
    [​IMG]

    If you aren't aware, this means you have collision turned on those props when they don't actually have collision information.

    The map itself is rather dim, so I'd up the ambient lighting up quite a bit. At the very least you need brighter spot lights. Check out some of the night maps, they are surprisingly bright.

    You seem like you have some neat detailing ideas, but I think the map has a lot of gameplay issues.

    Starting with detailing, I like your use of roof tops, and I think you have a pretty decent understanding of the shapes you should be making buildings. I could see you becoming a really good detailer with more practice.

    These are neat structures:
    [​IMG]

    Your displacements are a bit of a mess, though.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    It appears as though you've taken a flat displacement on the ground and stretched it to where you want it? It's always a good idea to try to start your displacements off in a very similar shape to what you want your end result to be, and then make it more natural looking. Upward does this really well.

    You had some good material/ prop combinations and usages, stuff that few new mappers tend to think of. I think you're ahead of the game detailing wise for where you are as a mapper. Just keep practicing! :)


    And onto gameplay...

    It feels rather vertically overscaled. A jumping class is going to dominate on it, being able to easily scale nearly every tall structure on the map, while slow fat Heavy is running around trying to find ways around everything, often into a long sightline he can easily get picked off from.

    Stuff like this is tough to navigate and should be smoothed out more
    [​IMG]

    Your map appears to be a giant box with stuff filling it.
    [​IMG]

    This is a pretty common tactic for newer mappers, but you'll run into a ton of problems later on with optimization and generally it doesn't lend to good gameplay design. Everything is very open because of it. Take a look at how gravel pit divides each area off.

    There are some huuuuge sightlines on your map.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I definitely think there are some big class imbalances on this map, jumping classes/ snipers are going to dominate while Heavies, Medics, and Pyros are going to have a really frustrating time.

    The laser seems like a fun idea, but I think it's causing you to sacrifice the overall quality of the map due to the sightline it creates, the (rather loud) bell, and the "random" death factor that players hate. Gimmicks can be fun, but I'd focus on getting solid gameplay down before trying to do anything too different. Hate to squash fun new ideas, but it's always a good idea to get a solid base of understanding down before trying to break outside the box.

    Finally, it doesn't seem that last point unlocks with the capture of the first two points
    [​IMG]


    I hope you don't take this run through too negatively. This is better than most early mappers create. You should definitely be encouraged by what you created and maybe take what you learned from it to your next map. Definitely still get it in a gameday and see how it plays though. I think you'll see a lot of the same things I mentioned once you get some other people running around it with you.

    Hope this helped! :)
     
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  4. Ctrl Alt Defeat

    Ctrl Alt Defeat L1: Registered

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    Thanks Crash! Your input's really helpful. I'll definitely look into the things you mentioned. A few questions about what you said though:

    1. A mapper friend of mine also mentioned the stretched displacements to me. I'm still confused what I should be doing there. Are you saying to structure the original brush a different way? Or are you saying that I should make it a more gradual incline to the displacements?

    2. As for the smoothing, that's definitely something I plan to take a few days on. With the tipped over fence, I may just delete the tipped over part and restore the fence, with a ramp or stairs of some sort up to it from the Red side, making it one way for those who can't jump over it.

    3. Speaking of jumping, do you have any tips about making it more friendly towards the slower/ less mobile classes? Besides obviously making it less open (which is also definitely planned. I've seemed to have a bad habit in past maps of making all buildings enterable, when I know practically all maps just have ones to be structures to navigate aroundd), what are some maps/portions of maps I could look at for inspiration for areas better suited for the slower classes?

    4. More on openness, the laser was more or less a last minute thing to pique people's interest, though I'll probably take it out or balance it better. One idea I did have was to have it pass through a pipe or tube or something in the middle of a gate/wall, still shooting across while also having that middle area still more compact and less open to snipers; what do you think of that idea? Or alternatively, should the laser just be scrapped? Perhaps replaced with a train or a saw? :laugh:

    5. As for the box shape, I'll probably adjust that when I have some time. The inaccessible buildings, along with the fenced off train stop near Blue spawn make it a bit less so, but I do plan on expanding on making it less boxy. The side fences are obviously placeholders. Hopefully nearly all of that will be a building or something of the sort in the future

    6. Yeah, forgot about that final cap point. I'm gonna go and fix that as soon as I post this comment.

    7. Edit: Where would I be able to find that download portion embedded into the site?

    Thanks for everything Crash, and I hope you'll occasionally come back to see how the map's doing. Keep doing what you're doing, from what I've seen, cp_glassworks is looking really good.

    Thanks!
     
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    Last edited: Aug 26, 2014
  5. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    1. You don't want to just drag it up from a flat plane, you want to build it as a box or a shape that is similar to the end result and then make it natural looking.

    This is Glassworks' second courtyard with all the displacement work turned off:)disp3d:), showing the underlying brushes:
    [​IMG]

    This what it looks like after I did all the displacement work:
    [​IMG]

    The same basic shape I wanted is there for the most part, I just had to make it more organic looking.

    3. The best thing you can do is run around as every class. Go from your spawn to each point and then to the next and then to final. See where you get caught up, see where you get frustrated. Just run around the map and pretend you're facing an enemy. Where are they and how can you get to them? What if they can jump and you can't, how will they have the advantage in that area?

    4. I'd say scrap it for now. You know I'm a fan of map shenanigans, but I didn't start doing that until I had quite a few maps under my belt.

    5. The important thing is to not start your next map with a big box. Check out the official maps in hammer and see how they build things and separate each area off.

    7. http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php click "add"

    Keep up the good work! All you have to do to learn how to map well is keep making them and learn from your mistakes. Get it in a gameday or imp test, see where it works and doesn't work, and go from there! :thumbup1:
     
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