Argyle

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by ClandestinePz, Mar 27, 2010.

  1. ClandestinePz

    ClandestinePz L1: Registered

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    This is my first (real) map. I've been working on it on and off for a while now and I've gotten to the point where its hard to continue working without any feedback. So I thought I'd post it here to see what you guys think of it.

    cp_Argyle is a 5 point cp map using the night time industrial theme. I'm not sure if its a competitive map (it has trains and death pits afterall ;)), but I've tried to apply competitive principals to its design. I was mainly focused on making something that was different from granary and badlands, but still fast paced and fun.

    Since this is my first map there are bound to be some amateurish mistakes. feel free to point them out, but I'm mostly interested to see a critique on the overall design.

    any comments and criticisms are welcome, but please be gentle ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2010
  2. Mr.Blob

    Mr.Blob L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Looks nice, I like the geomatry in the first screenshot.
    Although, it looks very open in places and a little dark.
     
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  3. TMP

    aa TMP Abuser of Site Rules

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    Did you name it after a town in Texas, hmm? Because I know an Argyle in Texas, and at their high school, they have some high scoring little... eh, never mind. Looks dark. Take lighting cues from Pipeline. Pipeline's floor level and accesible levels are always light.
     
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  4. ClandestinePz

    ClandestinePz L1: Registered

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    Actually I named it after Brian Cox's character in Braveheart (and also after socks).

    I tried to take some cues from pipeline, but I'm still a huge noob. It took me a while to get the hang of the lighting system. I'll improve the lighting later on, but I don't want to copy pipelines lighting completely. I kinda want to have some areas that are a little bit dark.

    It seems less dark and open ingame unless its just me.
     
  5. honorum646

    honorum646 L6: Sharp Member

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    [​IMG]


    :D
     
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  6. ClandestinePz

    ClandestinePz L1: Registered

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    When I first started the map it looked a lot like that sock in the middle.

    The maps kinda ugly right now but everything works, so I'm wondering if I should try and set up a test or just start working on A2 right away. Any advice?
     
  7. Lockhart

    Lockhart L2: Junior Member

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    I thought of this guy.
     
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  8. E.B.

    E.B. L1: Registered

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    You should request/make a reskinned control point with argyle pattern on it.
    Also if you're trying to do a night-time map, I think you can turn up the ambient light a fair amount so that you still have the dark feeling where there are obvious spotlights and stuff, but players can still see one another (which is important). Not sure what the entity for that is though.
     
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  9. ClandestinePz

    ClandestinePz L1: Registered

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    Forgot about Fallout 3. I never actually finished that game.

    That is a good idea thank you. The ambient light is controlled by the entity "light_environment" btw. I haven't had much time to tweak this yet but I'll definetly mess around with it for future versions
     
  10. kankle_king

    kankle_king L4: Comfortable Member

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    its the Citizen Kane of maps

    it will singlehandedly revolutionize the game
     
  11. honorum646

    honorum646 L6: Sharp Member

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    Oh. Turn mat_specular 0 on before building your cubemaps. Then turn it back on otherwise the purple checkers get reflected IN your cubemaps you just built.
     
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  12. Scampie

    Scampie L1: Registered

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    First impression: Too much ground space, even when you'll add etc stuff, there's just too much ground to cover both for responding to attacks and for just getting around. You really should think about shrinking most of the areas.

    Also, in general, the doorways are too small. Some I guess are fine like that, but most can be hard to navigate into and will just get you trapped and spammed to death, which ain't fun.

    Ok, Specific suggestions and comments... with pics!
    Last
    [​IMG]
    Needs to be smaller. Needs 2 spawn doors to prevent camping and allow for clutch plays. Needs some sort of cover around the CP, and likely the balconies so the medic has some place to stand rather than out in the open. Also, the vertical distance from bottom to top floor is a bit excessive.

    Building outside Last
    [​IMG]
    Seems like wasted potential at the moment, as well as being too large. I suggest some stairs in here to get up the the top floor from the floor height of the 2nd CP area. Also a lower 'flank path' which goes to the right area of 2nd (up to the side area) for scouts to use to push out.

    2nd CP area
    [​IMG]
    I'd move the left wall in a bit and get rid of a bunch of the wasted space on that side. Try and sneak the back 'houses' a little closer. I'd add some large object, like a granary crate, to fight around and on by the point. Something to add interest to the area. A balcony where the 'sniper window' is would also be interesting, give soldiers and scouts a place to attack or come from. Also, a stairway to the right path would be good so that it can be used to attack or chase.

    Get rid of the train and it's pit. Don't care what you do, but that chasm will ensure the map is never played competitively, which I suspect isn't what you want. No one wants to fall in a pit and get trained on 2nd. You can lose an entire round because of that.

    Building going into 2nd
    [​IMG]

    Short and sweet, building is a bit weird how it's laid out atm. I'd move the stairs to the other side and fill up the space a bit

    Yard
    [​IMG]
    Overall it's too open... but at the same time can be a hellish trap for the medic. Shrink up the space a bit, and makes the ramps nicer (or stairs or whatever), so the medic can backup without worry. Adding some cover, just a concrete block or a large rock or whatever, would be nice too, something to dodge behind.

    I would add some stairs and a higher entrance to mid here too. I'll address midfight things in a second, but having the option is good to keep stalemates at bay. Also, under the stair, next to the right door, add some sort of wall (or part of the stairs) to block some sightlines from left yard to right door.

    Mid
    [​IMG]
    I like Mid overall, but I think the option should be there for your team to push up top (don't put health or ammo up there). All the doors here are too small at the moment. I'd also add Crates or rocks or whatever to give some spam cover from the opposing side for your medic.

    Remove or raise the ceiling, interior midfights aren't fun because you can't have your Soldiers/Demo do cool jumps if they hit their head on the ceiling.

    Mid Side area
    [​IMG]
    Make the walkway bigger, too easy to get knocked off. I'd also extend the 'balcony' bits on either end of the area so that a soldier can position and spam at Scouts (who will likely be the main classes using the area). As a cool idea, I though some kind of tall rock formations coming out of the bottomless pit (I assume it's bottomless) that a Scout can do some double jumps on to get to the top area of Mid would be pretty neat.


    ANYWAY... I think the map is pretty good Clan, just need to tighten it up a bit, and I think you'll have a fun map on your hands.
     
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  13. ClandestinePz

    ClandestinePz L1: Registered

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    A very helpful post Scampie thank you. I'll consider all the changes you suggested. I had a route to the upper level of mid originally, but I took it out. I didn't want it to be the default route. I'm gonna cut a big hole in the middle of the midpoint celing, but I might raise it as well. I'm still a bit attached to the trains, but a voice in my head has been saying that they're a bad idea for a while now. I think I'll keep them in for a while just because they took a while to get working and because I can remove them so easily (of course the fact that I can get rid of them without changing the overall character of the map is probably another reason for them to go).
     
  14. ClandestinePz

    ClandestinePz L1: Registered

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    Bump for new version
     
  15. E.B.

    E.B. L1: Registered

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    Ran through it on my own and found some small issues.

    Looks like cubemaps are still not built or screwed up or something, kind of a big deal since you've got a lot of reflective floors.
    The "train tracks" brush needs slanted playerclips on the edges so that if you jump next to it you can still move forward.
    The train needs a couple of those "no entry" symbols or gates or something to make it clear when the passage stops being for players and starts being only for trains.
    Your stairs need slanted playerclips for jumping and such.
    Your deathpit needs signage (to make it clear that it's fatal) and nobuild (to block teleporter exploits).
    You can jump up and sit on the very edge here (http://imgur.com/xWa5t.jpg).
    This (http://imgur.com/FnIvg.jpg) is kinda awkward to jump up.
    Wierd black wall texture here (http://imgur.com/3RB67.jpg).
    You can capture/defend the final point by standing near the edge of that path above it.
    If time runs out without a win, the map goes into permanent regular overtime rather than sudden death.
    I did see the train bug after you mentioned it. Can you put the trigger_hurt that kills people on top of the train as well as in front?

    Your whole map is in one big box; an easy way to make it more optimized is to bring some skybox walls down to meet your buildings and compartmentalize it a bit. These could probably go on the mid and on those buildings between mid and 2nd. Plus skybox walls have the added benefit of blocking projectiles so no one can blindly spam over your buildings.

    And I still think you should make the Blu/Red control point light be reskinned with an argylle pattern.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010
  16. ClandestinePz

    ClandestinePz L1: Registered

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    are you sure? I was in game just a second ago and there were definitely cubemaps.

    as for the train its still a bit buggy (in fact its really easy to block). I'll replace the tracks in future versions if I keep it.

    EDIT: F**K the cubemaps are broken lemme see if I can fix this

    EDIT2: alright its fixed now. I somehow changed the name when I uploaded it (dumb mistake)
     
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    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010
  17. Dr Forrester

    Dr Forrester L2: Junior Member

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    Go Cland!

    *S*
     
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  18. ClandestinePz

    ClandestinePz L1: Registered

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    Oh hey forrester whats up?
     
  19. Scampie

    Scampie L1: Registered

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    Much nicer Clan, like the changes you've made, good progress!

    Train and small doors are still bad. Grrrr.

    Bunch of suggestions, mostly between mid and last:

    2nd CP:
    [​IMG]

    From where the shot was taken, Snipers have an incredible sight line on the right side, meaning no one would push there. Add some cover. Also, I believe stairs would be better than that crate you have to jump to, it'd be frustrating trying to get up there and failing the jump. Also suggest a platform walkway that connects the left and right 'high ground' right along the back wall. I also think the left door should be like a covered garage rather than just a door, mainly because it'd give some more nice architecture to the area, and would give some more cover pushing to 2 from that side. Make the new 'balcony' a bit wider, it's hard to traverse.

    Lower Building outside 2nd:
    [​IMG]

    I see this as mostly an area Scouts would use (the combo is too exposed from above going through here) and it'd be good if they could jump upwards to the second floor. Also think you should make the platform slightly thinner, it's an awkward angle looking down from above toward the backwall pictured here.

    Yard:

    [​IMG]

    I like the changes with the Garage here, but I do think it's way to easy defending here against someone pushing from mid. A soldier on top of the Garage can easily spam both very small doors. So I really feel a third path is needed, either on the right near the forward spawn (which you should move back a little to give some room), or on the left. Either could pretty easily connect to the 'side areas' of mid. Also, still want stairs (even though you can crouch jump up) to the right of the Garage.

    The hallway I drew here is specifically to flank a Medic on the top left who's healing Soldiers who are standing on the garage. I also think this would make the yard area have more interesting fights, since most of the paths are pretty linear and you don't have much choice beyond 'go forward or back'.

    Goddamn doors.
    [​IMG]
    Fix them. :O
     
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  20. ClandestinePz

    ClandestinePz L1: Registered

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    Bump for A3. I think I'll run some tests for this version. I need to see how it plays