Are there other methods for symmetry?

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Ctrl Alt Defeat, Aug 15, 2015.

  1. Ctrl Alt Defeat

    Ctrl Alt Defeat L1: Registered

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    For a lot of gamemodes, such as CTF, KotH, and 5CP, symmetry is often used for balance. The obtain this, I've typically used Select All and copy pasted it over. However, I was curious if there was a more clean way, or if you guys build it from a different starting point? Is there a certain path you take when mapping symmetrical maps that allows you to avoid using Select All and making sure you rename any entities?
     
  2. Moonrat

    aa Moonrat The end of an era

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    Not really, I just select all and paste it over using the flip commands to get that difference. Though I often finish the entire layout before I do entities, so I don't have to rename em.
     
  3. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    Copy and flip everything and then press Ctrl+H. Then go to Edit > Replace. Replace blu/red with red/blu and check the box for visible things only. Hit U to unhide. Done.
     
  4. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    for anything rotationally symmetrical you can use instances, but to be honest the process of collapsing the instances and recolouring/renaming specific things is too much hassle even for alpha versions.
     
  5. MoonFox

    MoonFox L10: Glamorous Member

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    eh, may as well pitch my 2 cents for symmetry
    koth: everything should be (excluding minor details) exactly mirrored
    CTF: you can slip around symmetry as long as both teams can easily defend and capture (good example 2fort)
    5cp and up (I made a 7cp map): the areas do not have to be symmetrical, but the points must be an exact mirror.
     
  6. Muddy

    Server Staff Muddy Muddy

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    Gameplay-wise, all symmetrical maps should be identical on each side. Detailing-wise, go nuts. (see: 2Fort, Double Cross)
     
  7. MoonFox

    MoonFox L10: Glamorous Member

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    I could argue, but she is right, though really minor difference is symmetry can make one team feel like the other is OP, or they are too weak.
     
  8. spudboy

    spudboy L1: Registered

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    Something interesting I've noticed is that one or two Valve maps actually do have very slightly different geometry on each side. Not enough to practically affect gameplay but enough to be technically different. The example that comes to mind is the left and right sides of mid on Granary. Red side has a barnlike structure and Blu side has some rounded silo type things.

    Point is, when having detail differences on each side it's alright for slight differences to exist as long as they don't noticeably affect gameplay.
     
  9. Lain

    aa Lain Resident wrong opinion holder

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    Okay, i'm gonna post the way I did cp_banana and did massive changes quite quickly. I believe that everyone does rotational/mirror symmetry wrong.

    Make half of the map as you would normally, place all the props and lights and entities and all that jazz too. When you are ready to mirror the map, make sure the mid is pretty symmetrical and slice it down the middle, deleting 50% of it.

    Then you need to select all the stuff but gamemode logic and such, and copy it over to the other side.
    Once this is done, change all the triggers and stuff to be compatible with the other team (Use UEAKCrash's ancient mapping technique for this).

    Once this is done select everything on one side of your map, and deselect entities/team based stuff, make a visgroup called "Red geometry" and then do it for the opposite side. Do the same for the entities, giving them each their own visgroup per team.

    There you go, now if you want to drastically change geometry for a certain area all you have to do is do it for one side, turn off visgroups for the entities, delete the opposite sides geometry, copy/paste/mirror/rotate your selection and turn your visgroups back on. If you need to change textures, keep a notepad file with all the equivalent textures for each side and then use the replace textures button.

    If you're changing entities do the same thing just with the geometry visgroup turned off. Enjoy!