Are downwards based payload maps, bad design?

[ethosaur]

I've started working on a new payload map after a few years of not making a tf2 map, it was going pretty good, but I realized halfway through, that I had designed the map to be in a constant downwards slope.

Looking back at all other payload maps, payload carts rarely dip down, aside from a few slopes, that I cant think of, I assume the point of this, is so red team always has the high ground, when defending?

Would this cause a lot of issues down the line, if I continued to have the map always move downwards?
In this case, blu would always have the high ground, when attacking, causing red to be at a disadvantage, through the whole map.

Luckily the map is in early development, so it shouldn't be hard to make changes still.

Hope this made any sense, I'd appreciate some advice before going ahead any further.

Thanks in advance.

 

[iiboharz]

I don't see any reason why it would be inherently bad as long as you're actively considering it as you make other design decisions which may be affected by the height differences.

 

[Idolon]

I think it can be done, but you need to be careful about it. You'll have to ensure red team still has positional advantages despite being downhill, such as giving them quicker access to high ground in the area or corners/cubbies for players to take cover behind. Take a look at Upward B or Badwater D for some examples.

 

[Pocket]

Badwater D is a particularly interesting example to study, because it's the last leg of the map, meaning it's supposed to be the hardest to push through (after all, if your team is skilled enough to get that far, clearly it's the defenders who need more help). And not only does RED have several vantage points level with or slightly above the top of the ramp, BLU, by virtue of pushing at such a steep downward angle, loses one of the biggest advantages they'd had so far, the ability to use the cart as cover. If you're directly behind it, you can't crouch low enough to not have part of your head sticking up. The only safe place to be is on the right side of it where there's almost no room to move.

 

[ethosaur]

Thanks everyone for their input, I decided to continue, with the downwards theme of the map, but instead making it in segments, so there is small dips, that lead to areas with even level of ground, for both teams, then leading to more dips as it repeats until the final cap.

Should have a first playable test version of the map, up and running soon, will be interesting to see how it plays out!


Edit: I've made a post now with newest available versions of the map: https://tf2maps.net/downloads/pl_dogwater.11531/