Are bottomless pits in comp maps bad ?

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by NoirSuede, Oct 2, 2015.

  1. NoirSuede

    NoirSuede L2: Junior Member

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    Because it seems that the only comp map that has bottomless pits is Upward, and even then it's bottomless pits are pretty far away from the action.
     
  2. Moonrat

    aa Moonrat The end of an era

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    I think most Comp players would rather have their death based on skill, rather than say, being airblasted or just accidentally falling into an insta kill pit. So maybe, but not necessarily. It's more if you can use them in an effective way, such as Upward's last, or just around the map.
     
  3. Muddy

    Server Staff Muddy Muddy

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    As far as I know, the most popular maps in competitive TF2 have no environmental hazards. But honestly, you'd be well-advised to keep deathpits and the like to a minumum 'cos they can be annoying regardless of if you're playing competitively or in pubs.
     
  4. KubeKing

    Server Staff KubeKing dan's birthday was fun too

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    Good point with Upward's last. If you can design a layout where death pits are only in high risk-high reward areas (incorporating the pit into the risk), then that's awesome. 5CP maps tend to action centered around the point (making the capture zones the highest-risk areas), which would explain why death pits on those maps are rare (Pyros could camp near the point and airblast those on it).
     
  5. Lain

    aa Lain Resident wrong opinion holder

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    Highlander - Yes
    6v6 - No
    4v4 - Depends

    In Highlander numbers are less important so you can utilize a death pit as a new strategic area. An example of deathpits used right in a map would be the side path that leads to a great sniping point, a health pack and a flank on Keikoku. It has high risk because you can instantly be killed by a pyro/well placed rocket, but is a fair tradeoff for what you get.
    Another example of deathpits done right is Upward last, it creates a remix of the usual "no man's land" scenario you see in cp maps, where each side of the divide has a great advantage over the middle, and a neutral advantage over the other side, but with this being a death pit, it requires players to either pass through a small choke or jump over it. (losing heath in the process).

    In 6v6 every player counts. Usually if you lose a Scout/Roamer you really can't fight an equivalent team without an Uber advantage. So minimizing the amount of random instakills that can happen is a great way to get people to like your map. Imagine Sunshine where the whole edge of the 2nd point is a death pit, that doesn't sound very good. It would force players to constantly stand in the lighthouse, susceptible to spam, and if they did want to walk up the stairs there would be nothing stopping a Soldier from instantly knocking them away, which would be a big problem for Medics, since Roamers constantly try to get them off guard.

    In 4v4 it's a weird situation. While players definitely do still count, because of the high amount of class disparity and different play styles of different teams, a good team of Scout/Pyro could totally outdo a Scout/Soldier/Demo if it were to come down to it, which doesn't mean spam death pits all over the map, it just means you're not barred from using them as with a 6v6 map, because the level of DM is so high and the amount of serious tactics outside of your team composition are limited death pits would do lovely to spice up gameplay. Although through saying this I don't think any map played in 4v4 has a death pit, so maybe keep that in mind.
     
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  6. NoirSuede

    NoirSuede L2: Junior Member

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    Well i'm designing a Koth map that has a pier overlooking the sea at the edge, should I cover the pier that's overlooking the cap with something to block instakills, leave it open, or do i cover the whole pier ?
     
  7. Kill_the_Bug

    Kill_the_Bug L14: Epic Member

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    If you want to be a sadist to your players - drop them into a bottomless pit that works this way:

    1. they fall in
    2. it gets dark
    3. they fall by lights on the wall that gives them the indication of falling or use a moving texture
    4. when they get to the bottom they hit a teleporter trigger that makes them repeat the fall - since it's dark they just assume they are still falling.
    5. put a timer/counter on the teleporter when it hits zeros or the counter hits x the teleporter turns off allowing the player to go by to a trigger_hurt that kills them.
    6. You'll be a VERY HATED person.

    :)
     
  8. ExtraCheesyPie

    ExtraCheesyPie L7: Fancy Member

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    Kill-bug, if you're gonna use moving textures, just place them on a player clip platform. Then make the platform rise up after 20 seconds, essentially respawning them.
     
  9. The Asylum

    aa The Asylum

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    If you don't have any death pits, they'll find something else to cry about
     
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  10. Scrambled

    Scrambled L1: Registered

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    I wouldn't necessarily say that bottomless pits are inherently bad on any comp map, though I am a highlander nerd, and no 6s maps I know of have them.

    The thing about the bottomless pits on Upward and Steel is that they aren't there to actually kill people, unlike the one in lakeside event, where its around a full health pack and is designed to add some risk to going for the health pack. They are just there to stop you from standing there.

    As long as the bottomless pits actually make the map play better than it would do otherwise, I reckon they'd be fine in any format.
     
  11. Hyperion

    aa Hyperion L16: Grid Member

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    Imagine cp_steel without deathpit
     
  12. ExtraCheesyPie

    ExtraCheesyPie L7: Fancy Member

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    Turn it into water :)