Another stunning limitation

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Tupperwits, Feb 17, 2013.

  1. Tupperwits

    Tupperwits L2: Junior Member

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    In my map ctf_pond_scum (shameless) the flag carrier is in a stunned/humiliation/fear state.
    To give ctf a positive feedback loop I want to make the speed penalty lessen every time the flag is captured.
    The speed reduction seem to be randomly capped for each class. Using cl_showpos 1 scout stops at 200, medic 160, soldier 120, heavy 115. The move speed reduction in properties isn't even constant for each classes despite what it says.
    Is there a better way to do this or do I just accept hammers limits?
     
  2. Deodorant

    Deodorant L6: Sharp Member

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    I don't think punishing players for working on the objective is a very good idea, unless you want the map to turn into deathmatch. I'm impressed with your Hammer skills, though.
     
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  3. Tupperwits

    Tupperwits L2: Junior Member

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    Firstly thank you. Secondly I didn't think of it as a punishment but a leveling of the playing field. In all other game modes the objective has a penalty of some kind to make it defendable, waiting on Cap points, slow moving payload. How difficult it is to defend the flag isn't constant e.g. once a scout has the flag a heavy is useless, doesn't happen on any other game mode.
    Thinking about it, turning it into a personal payload might work.
     
  4. ForbiddenDonut

    aa ForbiddenDonut

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    The problem with that mechanic compared to the game modes you listed is that capturing the flag in CTF is already difficult enough. As a game mode, CTF doesn't enjoy popularity due to its potential to stalemate, tendency to become a sentry war or just devolve into death match. This mechanic encourages that.

    I think, if anything, it'd be an interesting idea to see what would happen if you only introduced the positive feedback loop without the penalty. Start baseline, and increase the speed of the carrier for each capture.

    Otherwise, the most important thing when designing a CTF is to adhere to successful design principles, like making sure the spawn is a fair distance from the flag, there's an appropriate amount of chokeless routes and the flag area doesn't become an engineer's wet dream.
     
  5. Trotim

    aa Trotim

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    The caps you mention are exactly 50% of their normal max movement speed
     
  6. Deodorant

    Deodorant L6: Sharp Member

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    Sorry about not being able to answer your question and sorry about being such a negative mr grumpypants, but I still don't think it's a good idea. There's a big difference between slowing down the objectives and slowing down the players working on them. With a slow payload cart or cap, the players can dodge and move around like they're used to. They play normally, they just get an objective to focus on. Stun, on the other hand, cripples the actual player. Being stunned isn't an entertaining challenge, it's just frustrating. Giving players a frustrating condition whenever they pick up the intel basically equals punishing that behavior, and basic skinnerbox psychology says that will discourage players from trying.

    If the problem you want to solve is the difficulty of defending the intel once it's been picked up, I think a better solution would be to design the map in a way that better allows the defenders to intercept intel carriers.
     
  7. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    You may be able to change the move speed reduction by overwriting the key using AddOutput. If it is actually reducing based off of class speed rather than standard speed, then that was a change Valve made since the implementation of the entity (which is when I wrote that description).
     
  8. Tupperwits

    Tupperwits L2: Junior Member

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    You are correct sir, testers found it annoying, just the slow now.
    That works a treat, thank you. Maybe I've just got a bit muddled on this one.
    These two comments got me thinking, yes it is a penalty to the carrier but if each time its returned (whether cap or drop) the penalty is noticeably reduced, thus positive reinforcement to offensive play. The more times it is taken from it's podium the greater the overall reward e.g. it's taken too many times the carrier has a dispenser effect. I can't figure out how to increase speed without addcond for the Disciplinary Action effect.

    Also thinking of the skinner box effect for the defenders, no class can run faster than a scout therefore defenders feel cheated when they're out outmaneuvered, they either become offensive which turns into deathmatch or become engineer and sentry spam.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013