Another failed attempt

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by grazr, May 20, 2009.

  1. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Over the weekend i tried to create a new CP style map with the intention of removing rounds and focusing players directly onto singular objectives by allocating "area's" in the same way TC mode works.

    Between each CP area were gates of 40 seconds delay to allow for defence building and uber charges before the attack on a single area. Although some might say this is just removing the application of the 'round ends' for a more manual version applied in a more linear gamemode fashion. Which may be true. But i had hoped it would play out similarly to single stage payload, dispensing of the free kill slaughter that i felt 'breaks flow' and immersion that's found with rounds. But without an object that needed babysitting (payload) combat would revolve around where ever players happened to meet, confusing any sort of front line. This was partly a response to porting Avanti into a CP mode, gates preventing steam rolling scout rushes.

    The trouble being now, that i had intended the map to be fairly lengthy, to feel like a progessing attack into enemy territory. Unfortunately due to certain layout changes because of scale and optimisation choices (from my sketch), it turned out longer than i had anticipated. Forward spawns did not play out how i thought they would in initial application; as they would only confuse players with added complication which bely'ed the maps simple gamemode. It screamed for a round based game mode to fix its distance complications. Well, the experiment failed on the issue that travel between final spawn and CP1 grew too much, and as previously mentioned forward spawns would only confuse the game, i had actually wanted to avoid them in the first place to increase simplicity.


    I suppose i shouldn't be that bothered since it's only about 18 hours work, and merely an experiment at that. But i'm still pissed at this physical waste of time. (Although it's given me some great idea's).

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    Maybe next time if i pay more attention to the layout (specifically for advanced spawn location) of Badwater (After having made the connection to the similarity of singular stage payload and my concept in terms of necessity of spawn placement) i can pull off a sort of CP version of it with a gate/area style of play. (I don't mean port Badwater into CP, i'll design my own map for this concept).

    But for now.. i throw away some promising work :(
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2009
  2. Zeewier

    Zeewier L9: Fashionable Member

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    Seems a bit like trinity style. (6 rounds and 1 cp/round) But we have added rounds because:

    -Makes it easier to understand where you are and what your next objective is.
    -You can playerclip the not-used area's without having the chance on locking players outside the map.
    -Teleports the defending team to the next cp, so it can prepare better.

    But I will also add: That it isn't perfect yet and if it fails we will turn the map to a dustbowl 2/2/2 style map.

    Maybe you can do something like that too.
     
  3. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    One solution was having a spawn waiting at each CP for the attackers, but I was fast running out of space in general.

    Also yes, this was another problem, most of the map remains uncordoned and poses a threat to player confusion. Especially if the map deviates from basic linearism (Yes, i think i made that word up).

    If i can create a map design where Gated off area's don't seem way out of place then i should be fine. But i run the risk of alienating the player from the environment by confining 'him' too much.
     
  4. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    I've come to realize TF2 players are a finicky bunch. Anything slightly out of the ordinary and common sense migrates south for the winter.

    I tested out my ctf last night and everyone was like WTF do we do??? Duh, cap the damn intel, whatelse. The only change I made is that it's circular so you can leave you base and get to the other base from the front or back. Honestly I think you gotta hold everyones hands if its not linear. And never mind arrows, people dont look anyway.

    But I think that sounds like a cool idea. Maybe you just need to gate stuff off more. Like blus first cap opens a gate in front to 2nd, and closes a one way gate behind. So they can still come out of first spawn/cap area, but can't go back.
    So basically you'd be hearding them like cattle and they'd have no choice but to go towards the objective.
     
  5. Kronixx

    Kronixx L5: Dapper Member

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    it's funny how sophisticated we make our race sound, yet when we throw us in a video game and tell us "go get the objective" they're just as smart as any other creature on earth, we still gotta poke them with persuader sticks lined with fences giving them no more than like 2 choices otherwise a black hole opens in their cranium and sucks all the jello like substance down with it and thus the players are helplessly lost at that point. Once the black hole opens, people tend to stick to a negative impression of the map and ignore potential.

    As mentioned people don't read signs, but the second your missing a sign that points somewhere, you'll hear about it. They don't read them until they're standing at the ONE spot in your map with no sign and then they're instantly "aw hell, where's all the signs, NEED MOAR SIGNS!"
     
  6. kwagner

    kwagner L2: Junior Member

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    It's odd. Players can be geniuses in figuring out how to defend or attack an area, but be totally clueless as to how to get TO that area.

    Maybe create a big effect that makes the introduction of a new route super obvious. Like an explosion that collapses a wall, or sirens and lights as a big blast door opens. It's got to be obvious, or players may never see it.

    Example: People complain about getting lost in 'Steel', and I think it has a lot to do with how slow many of it's doors open. I ran around in it for a while to figure it out, and it's layout isn't nearly as bad as it seems at first. But some of the doors are so slow you can't even see them moving, unless you sit still and WATCH them.

    So make the creation of new routes obvious, and make sure those new routes are worthwhile for some reason. (Shorter, or sneakier, or leads to higher advantaged ground.)
     
  7. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    /applies healthy doses of love

    You've just given me a great idea for fixing (more like remaking) tc_strata
     
  8. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    I'm making a new intel model

    [​IMG]
     
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    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2009
  9. The Political Gamer

    aa The Political Gamer

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    It looks like you are very far along with the map. I would say finish it, compile it, and put for gameday. For all you know this could work perfectly! Never underestimate the human mind. ;)
     
  10. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    The next routes were generally directly behind the CP, or atleast will be in my next revision. Once captured, the doors open after 40 seconds (allowing for uber charge/healing/resupply). I'm not sure i could get more obvious than that short of hearling a whole load of dynamic arrows around the CP but even that might confuse players. There is such a thing as too much information.

    I think i have a good idea of how to achieve this now.

    I thought people might find this interesting. People discusss alternative game modes but beyond the broken hybrid maps (TC/CTF or CTF/CP, etc) that come out, little is taken beyond theory into practice. I thought this may have been quite intuitive (if not overly simple) since Steel already took the only unbroken alt CP concept out the hat before anyone else could.

    Hopefully it makes the time spent on it more worth while, and i think it has. I would have blogged this but i didn't think it'd get as much veiwing. I suppose i wanted to inspire individuals with the possibilities of CP mode.

    P.S. Glad to have been of service, Youme.

    edit:

    A lot of work did go into this even though it was only over the weekend. I thought it was about 18 hours work but the SDK says only 13... most of the time was spent figuring out alternative routes and SG spots which didn't amount to much due to scrapping the map because of the travel issue. I'll try and keep some of the area's mostly intact and implement them in a layout that compliments the play style more.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2009
  11. 3DRyan

    3DRyan L2: Junior Member

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    Nothing is a waste of time if you learn something from it. ;)
     
  12. Mar

    Mar Banned

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    That is a great life lesson right there. Everyone should practice that.