An idea to revive Territorial Control

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by infinitedjedi, Sep 8, 2011.

  1. infinitedjedi

    infinitedjedi L1: Registered

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    Hi All,

    The purpose of my post is to see if someone is interested in helping me materialize an idea to revive the Territorial Control game mode in TF2. This would be done by resurrecting an old Quake World Team Fortress map called Canalzone. In case some of you played the original TF, I am sure you remember what a wonderful map it was.

    Here is a link to the old map: http://www.planetfortress.com/jmcstfmapzone/canalzon.htm

    In 2008 VilePickle created an exact TF2 port of the map (minus the flag capturing). Information on it can be found from my team's website here: http://tf2.digitaljedi.com/2008/canalzone-beta-released/ & http://www.vilepickle.com/creations/maps/canalzone. While many of us loved the map, it turned out to play poorly in competition and even worse on public servers.

    My idea is to essentially take the capture point areas and turn them into "mini maps" that make up a Territorial Control Map.

    What I can Offer:
    First, I know map making is a huge effort and many do not have the time to take this on. I am sure people have posted on here asking for someone to "make a map for them". I would like to ensure you that this is not the case with my post. I am 100% serious about this and willing to see the project go from beginning to end. I am no map maker/modeler, but I can offer some help in other areas.
    1. I am one of the Administrators for UGC (United Gaming Clans; www.ugcleague.com). We have a testing group of about 40 players who are willing to participate in organized, efficient testing. If things turn out well, we can use the map in our league roations (we also have 6v6, 8v8).
    2. The above links have a map of the entire layout for the original. This should be some help to get started.
    3. My time assisting with testing and even some map making with guidance.
    4. Some of my friends know VilePickle, maybe he would be willing to share some of the source files to get this started.

    I am hoping for the best, but expecting the worst here. If nobody has the time I completely understand, just thought I would share the idea in case someone finds it interesting.

    Thanks for your time!

    -INFINITE
     
  2. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    Hate to burst your bubble, this is what they do now anyways in hydro, so this isn't really a new idea.

    I believe it was decided here that a TC map that was either KoTH TC or was a map with yards (instead of narrow hallways) between the area's would be better than the current model.
     
  3. infinitedjedi

    infinitedjedi L1: Registered

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    Having a new idea or not isn't really the purpose of my thread. My point was to utilize the layout of the old CZ map in the TF2 TC game mode. Hydro is a poor map on many regards, I am hoping this would turn out better. Haven't burst my bubble yet bud!
     
  4. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Hydro doesn't work because there is no way to sustain progression on the points, so even if you were to get to the CP after the head to head down 2 narrow hallways, the enemy team respawns right next to the CP with fresh HP/ammo and can easily clean up stragglers on the point and reset their CP.

    Of course that is all assuming a team can even push past the linear hallway death traps; which is usually no.

    YM, author of pl_hoodoo and cp_manor is working on a TC with certain measures in place that remedy these 2 primary issues.

    A) removed one of the diagonal rounds so that he can fit larger corridors between each arena so that spam doesn't trap players and progression can be made more easily.

    B) beginning a capture on the enemy point creates a respawn advantage for your team so they respawn faster.

    These two concepts have proven to improve on the TC gamemode.

    Porting CZ to TF2 would certainly be interesting but TFC ports have proven to be... problematic. You need to modify the layout for TF2, you'd be surprised how different the gameplay is considering it's essentially still the same 9 class team based gameplay. Both 2fort and dustbowl play fairly atrociously and each has had several modifications over the years to make it more bearable. Badlands was probably the most successful TFC port and it's not even the same game mode let alone true to the original design. But i'm unsure how exactly making CZ alone will fix the TC issue.
     
  5. Loc_n_lol

    Loc_n_lol L10: Glamorous Member

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    I had a prototype of a tc map which featured 4 possible rounds of 3 cps (8 cps total, laid out in a 3x3 square grid with nothing in the center, mid cps don't really count as "territories", only the 4 corners). I thought this might be interesting but I never got around to actually do it. It's tricky cause it needs preliminary testing to see how to balance the format in terms of size and respawn timers so that rounds don't end up being complete steamrolls or drag out too much, and then the real work only begins...

    It's also tricky cause making an asymetrical map with symmetrical gameplay pretty much ensures that you've ruled out the entire comp community (and like-minded pub players) from your potential audience...

    But anyway I had the entity logic sorted out, it's not as straightforward as it seems because mid cps need to change allegiance dynamically to avoid creating invalid rounds that the game would try to play anyway (like a round where the two final cps are blu and mid is neutral or red).
     
  6. re1wind

    aa re1wind

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    I concur with frozen. Koth TC or drastic reduction in hallways + more open areas should improve tc style maps.

    What you're suggesting sounds like a koth tc version of canal.

    actually a 3 point CP could work, where cp 1 is inbetween blu warehouse & arc room, middle cp is inbetween warehouse, balcony, fountain andlibrary, and third cp is between red boathouse and warehouse. The two bridges between blu/red spawn and the middle area could be toggled based on who owns the middle point. I 'm suggesting this because judging by the screenshots, the map isn't particularly big, or worth turning into a tc map.
     
  7. infinitedjedi

    infinitedjedi L1: Registered

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    Yea, I think that sounds really good. I never intended for the map to port over exactly as is.. but tweak the layout of a few of the points and apply it to the koth tc game mode you mention. But alas, time is precious these days. Thanks for replying folks!