An arguement about FPS and LAG.

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by grazr, Feb 14, 2010.

  1. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Ok, so i was having a discussion about people dealing with bad FPS ingame. Dawn of War 2 to be precise. Someone told me they were getting fed up of people with low end systems preventing their own high end systems reaching their full potential in online games. Which apparently warranted them abandoning a multiplayer match in progress which wasted not only their time, but 2 other players time (3 man matches) and ruining the other 2 players game experience. Which was actually the original topic of the discussion; my own ettiquette apparently differed from this individuals, as i laballed him as an unreliable player and that lobby party's should be informed to his habit of abandoning games on a whim so that they might have the choice to kick him for a more reliable player that would better satisfy their game experience. But he did not like the idea of being labelled negatively like this, stating he had the right to leave a game if his FPS bugged at any point during a game, or another player took too long to load into the game.

    Now i'm willing to admit that if a games FPS is intolerable that players should leave if they are unsatisfied, but the issue resides in that "intolerable" is relative to the individual; but also baring in mind they were being overly exagerative in most points, and that the game implements a lag grace period of 30 seconds that automatically dispands laggy party members. Giving us a clear indication of what the game/developers deemed acceptable limits. Which this individual obviously disagreed with, claiming his rights were being violated before the hard coded game rules intervened on his behalf.

    Now it was my understanding that poor FPS on a decent system, online, was largely down to poor latency issues, or a failure to sync X system to X system over a network, whether by a server or not.

    In fact this link pretty much states all that i had to say on the matter. That it was unlikely that another computer system with a poor GPU, would lower your own GPU's performance capacity through the network. That communication issues interrupt the rendering of the game and result in the low FPS, not the other persons poor system. IF anything it would be their poor connection. But they refused to engage the point telling me i was wrong and didn't understand the way that this game engine worked or networked, compared to what i am already familiar with; yet failed to support his accusations of my own statements invalidity with any sources, simply stating i "need to do more research".

    Since it became a stupid discussion of me discussing networking and game engines and them telling me "i was wrong and misinformed" and that i was "making claims so rediculous" they "refused to participate in the discussion any further", i left it at that.

    Searching for this apparent difference in fact regarding game networking, i did do a little research to no avail. Sources as the one previously linked continued to support my own understanding. But in an effort to cover more ground i was wondering whether i am possibly wrong in my current assumption, that someone here might be able to enlighten me to this new way of looking at networking and data package I/O technology.

    I may not know this individual or their community base, but i know that this one has more than its fair share of intelectuals and computer literates.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2010
  2. Lancey

    aa Lancey Currently On: ?????

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    Latency and frames per second are unrelated. Rendering is affected by the latency you're receiving, but it does not stop the process of rendering all together. Players have received the information they need from their last complete packet, and therefore should be able to render the majority of the scene even when experiencing latency issues. You should not receive a drop in frame rate, and if it appears you are, it is based on how the engine is rendering the particular scene from the information it has, though most will not have any effect.
     
  3. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Yes, I get quite annoyed at people who say they're getting low FPS and blaming my (australian) connection for it.
    They're two completely different things!
     
  4. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    ...and thus is the result of years of idiots confusing latency and framerate. You know, all those people that go in a poorly optimized map and yell "OMG LAG". They are so easy to tell apart too that it boggles my mind these people don't get it. Aly brings up another annoying thing too, people who believe one person with a high ping will make other people have worse latency, which is totally not the case when any sort of server is running between the clients.

    But really, I've never heard anyone trying to claim one person's hardware will affect another's over the network. That is beyond idiotic or uninformed, it is downright mentally deficient.
     
  5. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    I should probably have mentioned this frame rate difference occurs in the same environment they normally get higher frame rates in. It's not so much 'that' as we're talking about a map (infact the game mode "The Last Stand" only has 1 map) that a player visits frequently with a consistantly high frame rate. Say 60. Then after a few games he joins a new party and suddenly hits 15 fps and then gets dropped from the server.

    Unfortunately server communcation can interfere with a clients FPS, and i think this is where the confusion lies.

    Pretty much exactly this. This is why you see players 'flickering about' in the environment, yet your own frame rate remains consistant; their positions have failed to update to the server and thus failed to update to the client (you). Their "bad" system does not interfere with your systems performance capacity, although it might make it harder to hit them.

    However, the affects tend to be a little more severe when the client fails to communicate with the server themself; since your system fails to update your own position in the environment your computer fails to render your view at a consistent rate. Certain de-syncronisation affects will occur such as walking around a corner, but then jumping back 10 feet and facing a wall. This does interrupt FPS consistancy, but this is not the result of other clients or rendering load, this is your connectivity.

    Or so i understand it.

    Of course the end result differs in relation to the server-update/client-update/refresh rates.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2010
  6. Flame

    aa Flame

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    brb changing my rate to 10 so nobody can hit me.
     
  7. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Didn't Valve remove 2 of the Steam rate commands to stop 'rate hacking'? :p
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2010
  8. Lancey

    aa Lancey Currently On: ?????

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    His frame rate could be caused by additional processes running in the background which could interfere with his GPU running at peak efficiency.
     
  9. Numerous

    Numerous L4: Comfortable Member

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    [​IMG]
    'nuff said, forget him.
     
  10. Randdalf

    aa Randdalf

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    I've been getting horrible lag spikes for ages which I fixed last week using a program running in the background. However, there's now a new issue, which is poor FPS (and/or mouse lag), whenever in combat with somebody, so I can't hit a thing :(