Advice on first map (Major WIP and also crappy :P)

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Robo-Dale, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. Robo-Dale

    Robo-Dale L1: Registered

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    I'm kinda lookin for advice on how to continue with the current first map I'm trying to create for a trade server. Seeing as how there are now objectives I found this the simplest map for a beginner to start off with. What I'm looking for is to somehow show that this square box you see floating here to look as though it's being held by rafters in a forest, like a lakeside condo on a cliff or something. Both red team and blue team have this and there is a hole in the corner past the spawn room for a drop down to a little beachfront-esque area and then the grey area will be all water for a lake/river. Also what was in my general doodlings were at both corners be small caves to exit out to the other team's beach so as to prevent having to swim across and snipers pick them off (which i forgot to mention I have no roof at the current which is where snipers would be perched nor do i have a roof for the map and need to figure out a good way to make decent stairs). I'm trying to find a way to make the orange wall you see there be a skybox and an area down below like a skybox on the ground that simulates there is a forest or some woodland areas further past the condo's highest areas and lowest areas if that's even possible or if anyone understands what I'm going for there. Once again I am very new to this and would like feedback that can help a newcomer like myself so please do not spam that it sucks because I already know it will (first map and all). Also sorry for this wall of text, didn't mean it to get this long don't ever really like posting a crap ton of things asking alot from people but just need to know some general info on how to make this work how I'm invisioning. Thank you for reading either way and peace. :3

    Images uploaded as an album so here's the link: http://imgur.com/a/XfWP6
     
  2. Mr. Wimples

    Mr. Wimples L6: Sharp Member

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    Not gonna stop you, but a trade server is no way to learn how to map for TF2. If you're just learning the basics of hammer and entities, it's fine, but if you really want to learn something substantial I suggest a simple KOTH or Arena map. If you want practice with brushwork, try replicating a picture of something in hammer, was fun and worked well for me.

    Yyler made a nice little post about mistakes not to make in your first map

    It also wouldn't hurt to check over Grazr's tutorials (In his sig)

    Additionally I'd like to point you toward Boojum's Resource Pack if you haven't gotten it yet.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
  3. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    Game modes are barely complicated at all. Ctf, koth, and arena, are pretty much as complex as a door.
     
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  4. RaVaGe

    aa RaVaGe

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    tl;dr

    No i'm kinding.

    More seriously,

    first, stop with all those useless maps, you really can learn more with an small arena map. There are plenty of tutorials here, for the displacements, props, brushwork, texturing, I think that you should learn them one by one, and to put them all in an arena map. Don't waste your time with this kind of maps, it's not the good way for me.

    Secondly when you are starting to do mapping/modeling in a game, you have to see how the game is designed and how it play, I think that's the most important. If I got one tip to give for a beginner, I think that's to literally copy the style and the design of the game. I presume that you have already play to goldrush/badwater/viaduct/dustbowl/..., did these maps looks like a giant cube with a box as a spawn ? No, I don't think.

    So okay, I seem very harsh, but it's the truth.

    Go to arena_ravine and arena_lumberyard, see how it's designed, two spawns with a point in the middle, pretty easy, but it give all the knowledge about the gameplay, that is, how cutting the sightlines, how to manage the space and the heights, where to place the chokepoints, etc.

    The most important for me it's how the heights are designed, heights areas are giving a lot of advantages to the low areas. In exemple of badwater, cp2, see how the high building in front of the capture point give a huge advantage for the REDs, this upper part is there from the very beginning of development, and i'm sure that is the base of this point. Always in this exemple of badwater cp2, this part is called a chokepoint, when valve created this upper part, they wanted to do a chokepoint here, because of the CP just below, and as you can see, it play very well.

    Just bout' the sightline now, it's very important to cut your sightlines, how to cut them ? Play with the heights ! Don't cut all the sightlines, always with my badwater cp2, there is a huge sightline between the BLU's spawn and the RED's choke, but it's very tight, it's important to keep some sightlines, but they must be thought to don't disadvantage a team.

    The real tip for you, it's that you need to look in depth the maps of Valve, the detailing, texturing, etc will come after ;)

    GL!
     
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  5. Robo-Dale

    Robo-Dale L1: Registered

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    Thank you guys for all the advice, I'm gonna try putting the trade server on hiatus for an arena/koth map but i must ask, what size should i make the map? The last one was 6400x6400 and wondering if I should go with that size again or with something maybe smaller like 3200x3200, or is there a standard sizing for small beginner arena/koth maps?
     
  6. RaVaGe

    aa RaVaGe

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    http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=12605

    Check this, there is no standards in therm of size for a map, it's the length between the chokes/cp who matters.

    EDIT: And as is said, check ravine and lumberyard in the SDK, you should have them in your map folder.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
  7. Robo-Dale

    Robo-Dale L1: Registered

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    Also may I impose another question? I have started the sketching on a middle eastern/desert-esque koth map and was wondering if there are any really good texture/prop packs out there that could help me. I know there is a prop somewhere here I looked up a while back for clothes blowing through the wind on clotheslines that I would like but forgot where it was. :p
     
  8. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

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    Sadly, the only good Middle Eastern stuff I know of is from a contest map whose creator gave up on it before it could be submitted, so the content went unreleased. I don't know why people make stuff like this and not share it with the community, but there you are.
     
  9. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Does anyone actually play arena_ravine? Pretty sure i've only played it twice in 4-5 years that TF2's been going.

    KoTH is way more successful than arena so you're more likely to get people playing and feedbacking your map that way, making KoTH. If you want it arena, just convert it over since they are very similar game play wise, most arena maps have KoTH variants or vice/versa, you basically just delete the respawn room entities for arena and swap out the game logic.

    But yea, making a trade map really doesn't teach you anything other than how to make a sealed room, which is something you can do in an evening and doesn't really warrant a public release. The TF2map scene is saturated with useless trade and idle maps and in dire need of maps with actual balanced and fun gameplay. You'll get much more support for a real map.