CP 3Mannworks [Deleted]

[Freyja]

How? Tell me. You can't just say it's terrible without explain why.

WE HAVE.

 

[Yrr]

It is not. MvM maps are built for defending red base and how are other maps build. The team who owns the base are built for them.

thats exactly why its a bad idea, its an asymmetrical map where defending is designed to be especially powerful because you defend against waves of enemies, that doesnt convert properly into a symmetrical map where attacking is as viable as defending.

this is fundamentally flawed as a concept

 

[FishyUberMuffin]

To be frank, have you considered that none of it is very good?

I mean, even you, the creator, the best thing you can say is "it's big and i made it all by myself".

Yeah because it's still a new map. Of course I am not going to say much of the map. It's not finished.

 

[Freyja]

Mapping for TF2 is not a check list of things to satisfy. It's not just 'it has closed in areas for pyro and heavy and rocks for scouts to jump'.

Honestly, you will never be a good mapper till you understand that

 

[FishyUberMuffin]

WE HAVE.

You only said about how the map has missing textures, dark rooms, there is a leak in the map. You said nothing about the control point it self expect for changing the textures for the ramp.

 

[LeSwordfish]

Yeah because it's still a new map. Of course I am not going to say much of the map. It's not finished.

Hang on-

People do look at what's nice about the map. People keep saying I like how this is. Or I like how the control point is. So they are doing it but choseing not do it on my map.

Because they are looking at all the small things that are wrong and don't take in what's good about the map.

Are there good things that people aren't mentioning? Or are there no good things because it's new?

 

[FishyUberMuffin]

thats exactly why its a bad idea, its an asymmetrical map where defending is designed to be especially powerful because you defend against waves of enemies, that doesnt convert properly into a symmetrical map where attacking is as viable as defending.

this is fundamentally flawed as a concept

Then you should say that all attack defend maps are flawed because it's build for attack and defend. This map has routs you can use. Higher places. Spy rouats.

 

[Blade x64]

I did look at the scaling and I put that into shutdown and people said it was off. I know to put rocks and stuff for jumping classes and scouts. Other objects to block sniper sight lines. I know about design theory. We're you need multiple routs and different levels.

So you looked at it, cool. Did you understand the logic behind them?

Consider algebra. In class, you get taught all these methods and formulas on how to manipulate numbers. To pass the class, you just need to remember which formula or method to use for a given problem. This is shallow understanding.

In these classes, there will undoubtedly be a segment on real world application, better known as word problems. I graded college level algebra for 3 years: students often struggled to solve these because they never understood the logic behind what they were learning. Some put in minimum effort, only learning how to apply a specific formula when they saw a certain arrangement of symbols. Others never tried to get additional help to reach the understanding they needed. The students could not solve these problems because they did not truly understand the tools the were given.

So I ask you this: what makes a map fun, and why does it make it fun?
The answer is not balance, but balance helps.

 

[Freyja]

You only said about how the map has missing textures, dark rooms, there is a leak in the map. You said nothing about the control point it self expect for changing the textures for the ramp.

I'm not talking about this specific map. I'm talking about every other map of yours where this whole process is exactly the same, ending in you abandoning it and moving on to another project.

 

[FishyUberMuffin]

Hang on-




Are there good things that people aren't mentioning? Or are there no good things because it's new?

It can be both.

 

[Yrr]

Then you should say that all attack defend maps are flawed because it's build for attack and defend. This map has routs you can use. Higher places. Spy rouats.

attack defend maps are built to make attacking and defending both equally viable because they are both to be done by players
MVM is built to make defending more viable than attacking because one team is a few players and the other team is 500 robots

as a rule of thumb, jamming some shit into someone else's map and changing the gamemode is never going to work, dont do it, make something yourself instead

 

[LeSwordfish]

It can be both.

...

okay thats me done

 

[FishyUberMuffin]

So you looked at it, cool. Did you understand the logic behind them?

Consider algebra. In class, you get taught all these methods and formulas on how to manipulate numbers. To pass the class, you just need to remember which formula or method to use for a given problem. This is shallow understanding.

In these classes, there will undoubtedly be a segment on real world application, better known as word problems. I graded college level algebra for 3 years: students often struggled to solve these because they never understood the logic behind what they were learning. Some put in minimum effort, only learning how to apply a specific formula when they saw a certain arrangement of symbols. Others never tried to get additional help to reach the understanding they needed. The students could not solve these problems because they did not truly understand the tools the were given.

So I ask you this: what makes a map fun, and why does it make it fun?
The answer is not balance, but balance helps.

I understand the logic because soilders need high places to shoot down at the coast of health. The pyro are short combate classes and they need close arears to be effective. Heavy's the same as pyro. Engineer is to block off of choke points and control points. The demos same as engineer. Sniper need long sight lines.

 

[FishyUberMuffin]

...

okay thats me done

It can. People think different then for others. So people don't say anything or little because it's a early map. And people can say not good things because they think it's a bad map because one thing is off.

 

[FishyUberMuffin]

attack defend maps are built to make attacking and defending both equally viable because they are both to be done by players
MVM is built to make defending more viable than attacking because one team is a few players and the other team is 500 robots

as a rule of thumb, jamming some shit into someone else's map and changing the gamemode is never going to work, dont do it, make something yourself instead

And I tried that before and it did not work so I am trying something else.

 

[FishyUberMuffin]

I'm not talking about this specific map. I'm talking about every other map of yours where this whole process is exactly the same, ending in you abandoning it and moving on to another project.

Then a year later I come to it. It's better to leave it because I can't fix it or I just ran out of ideas for the map.

 

[~curlysnail]

It's hard for everyone at the start. My first map was a massivly overscaled mess, and from that I've learned how to make stuff smaller and more playable.

 

[FishyUberMuffin]

It's hard for everyone at the start. My first map was a massivly overscaled mess, and from that I've learned how to make stuff smaller and more playable.

I did make things smaller but people keep saying it was still to tall.

 

[Muddy]

I did make things smaller but people keep saying it was still to tall.

... then make it even smaller...?

 

[Blade x64]

I understand the logic because soilders need high places to shoot down at the coast of health. The pyro are short combate classes and they need close arears to be effective. Heavy's the same as pyro. Engineer is to block off of choke points and control points. The demos same as engineer. Sniper need long sight lines.

That's not logic. That's a checklist for the bare minimum: something every other map has.