2Fort Canyon (Working Title)

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Aki, Dec 21, 2009.

  1. Aki

    Aki L4: Comfortable Member

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    Well, the idea behind this map started with 2fort, or more specifically 2 fort engie power. That map has proven to be popular but its balance is questionable and clipping errors abound from characters walking in areas Valve didn't intend for them to walk in. Still, I've watched this map played and took some lessons from it and my towers project (which is shelved at the moment). Before I spend hours at building though I want to go over the blueprints with people that have done this before.

    This map is only 2fort in the sense that I started with that floor plan and then modified it - heavily, then very heavily - and now almost unrecognizably so. I don't know if this will endear it to anyone who doesn't like 2fort already. I doubt it, though the map does address some problems of 2fort, like spawn camping.

    Before I go over it in this post I want to go over what I observed from the Engie Power map (I don't know of a link to it, but several servers out there run it so it shouldn't be too hard to find). That map adds multiple new paths, including a means for all classes to get onto the roof of the bridge and onto the roofs of the buildings. The intel room is modified so that the conference table can be used for a sentry gun, and most noticably the intelligence room can be reached from the sewer.

    That one change overshadows everything else in 2fort Engie. This new route is FAR shorter than any other route to the intelligence and bypasses all the choke points of the level. As a result every game I've seen on 2fort engie revolves around this one route, sometimes to the point of the rest of the map not mattering.

    Now, this redesign is called "canyon" because the 2 forts face off opposite ends of a canyon. The idea is to provide a quick strike route to the intel that is one way because of a drop, and then provide multiple choices of return routes. Many of the routes are shorter but some of the new alternate routes are larger. Here's the change list and the idea behind them.

    • The Canyon: The main approach between the forts is a canyon, from which the working title is derived. Slightly longer than the existing 2fort map and narrower, the canyon is a sniper's dream. To make matters worse a natural arch bridge spans the canyon and blocks the lines of sight between the opposing sniper battlements.
    • The Front Lawn: The area immediately in front of each fort has a side passage to a cave and a drop that leads down to the intelligence room, bypassing the fort on the way in, (but not on the way out). Irregularities in the canyon wall will be useable by double jumping scouts to reach the battlements, snipers and demos can still jump up.
    • The Barn: The sewer entrance to the barn is gone. A stairway leading up to the battlements has been added.
    • The Courtyard/Ramp room: The straight stairwell's orientation in this room is changed because the underlying intelligence chamber is changed. The spawn room now opens into this area.
    • The Spawn Room: 2fort has always had camping problems because of the one exit from the spawn. In this redo there are 3 exits - the 2 new ones are to the courtyard and to the west end of the battlements and past the stairs down into the barn. It should prove an order of magnitude more difficult for a team to spawn camp this room since it will take three players to do it, but if it is a problem I'm considering adding a drop exit from this spawn room down to the intel.
    • The spiral This has been moved between the battlements and the hayloft.
    • The battlements Longer, only a small section of them are subject to fire long range fire but can be entered from three areas.
    • The gulleys? This is the east side of the map, these passageways lead up to the natural bridge over the canyon and provide an alternate though longer route that isn't as vulnerable to sniper fire.
    The intel area remains much the same.

    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2010
  2. Anagram Man

    Anagram Man L2: Junior Member

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    Ummm, you know you are supposed to, you know, make the map first?

    And you will get highly flamed for a Valve Map remake.
     
  3. Aki

    Aki L4: Comfortable Member

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    I prefer to catch problems as early as possible. To take the above in hammer and build out a walkable wireframe level will take about 2 days. Now, before I do that I'd like to know if there's any glaring issues based on this structure.

    Second, 2fort was the starting point. If you compare this blueprint with that of 2 fort you'll see that they are very different from each other at this point. I can't open the valve VTM file and do a few quick edits and expect to get any good results with this. I'll have to start from nothing when I start to commit this thing. That is the main reason I would imagine for the flaming of valve map remakes - it takes relatively little effort because it bypasses much of the work.

    That isn't what I intend to do here.
     
  4. The Political Gamer

    aa The Political Gamer

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    As long as thing is going to be build by you from the ground up we will have no problem with it. :)
     
  5. Aki

    Aki L4: Comfortable Member

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    Thanks. I don't see how I could avoid building it myself (besides, that is the fun after all). The spiral and straight staircase is moved, the intelligence room's orientation is changed, the sewer is gone. It would take longer to rebuild the Valve map than start from scratch.
     
  6. HeaH

    HeaH L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Sounds like you've got so many changes planned that theres no longer a point in calling it 2Fort. I would never join a map called 2fort_canyon
     
  7. Dr. ROCKZO

    Dr. ROCKZO L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    That's a good point, and if you keep it too similar to 2fort people will criticise you with "Hey, you just took 2fort and re themed it!" So hopefully during construction it gets changed enough to not be recognizable as a 2fort clone.
     
  8. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Rename it and we might have a good CTF map on our hands!
     
  9. Engineer

    aa Engineer

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    Pretty much what everybody above me said.
     
  10. Aki

    Aki L4: Comfortable Member

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    Well, is Dead Man's Gultch taken?

    CTF: Dead Man's Gultch

    Has a nice sound..
     
  11. The Political Gamer

    aa The Political Gamer

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    ctf_dead_mans_gultch, Too many words. How about ctf_cataract? [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cataract_Canyon[/ame]
     
  12. Aki

    Aki L4: Comfortable Member

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    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  13. HeaH

    HeaH L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    I say go for it
     
  14. The Political Gamer

    aa The Political Gamer

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    ctf_antelope sounds perfict!
     
  15. absurdistof

    aa absurdistof

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    I can't tell too well from the screenies, just make sure the basic map layout isn't the same as 2fort.
     
  16. Aki

    Aki L4: Comfortable Member

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    The basic decision tree of 2 fort is intact. You can follow the traditional route to and from the intelligence with only a little adjustment. There are alternate routes available and overall the map is larger primarily because 2fort was designed for 14 players though the map often has 34 player games on it now. This new map has the room to accommodate 34 players (or that's the plan).
     
  17. Aki

    Aki L4: Comfortable Member

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    Well, I've built the cubes for the rooms in hammer and checked to get them to line up. I had the original 2 fort map open briefly to make sure certain rooms are to the same scale as the original. Now to start hollowing out the cubes to make rooms proper and at that point I'll have an alpha 1 map.
     
  18. Vander

    Vander L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Sorry, I can't help myself. It's spelled GULCH. Not gultch. :)

    I think Dead Gulch has a nice ring to it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
  19. Lancey

    aa Lancey Currently On: ?????

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    I know from experience that no matter how many times you check and double check a layout, it won't be perfect and it certainly won't be the best method out there.
     
  20. Engineer

    aa Engineer

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    So are there any screenshots yet? :)