Stark

CP Stark b2

YM

LVL100 YM
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Dec 5, 2007
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Right, uploading _a5 to the database and server, we'll run that shortly, I'll post an announcement and I think nineaxis has some furnace creek testing to do with _b4 as well :)
 

tarmo-

L3: Member
Dec 10, 2008
108
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NOTE, THIS IS BASED TO 1 (one) 6ON6 TEST

a5 felt better than the others.
cp3 still feels a bit awkward, so you might want to design some changes to it, though the fences i proposed worked.
the areas between control points still feels like boring tunnels, so i prefer something to be changed for them, tho you might be able to make it better with detailing :p also, corridors < free space, specially on cp1-cp2 area and cp2-cp3 area
cp1 is the best part of the map at the moment, really tense.
cp2 is ok.

by the way, the result of the pug was 4-2, was even for a long time and last cap happened 40seconds before the timelimit
 
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YM

LVL100 YM
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Dec 5, 2007
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A5 was excellent, any problems with the map were teams rather than map-related. Last CP is really hard to defend for better or for worse. Keep it up, you should be able to start detailing now

You serious? :eek: I've hardly played it 10 times yet!

I think I'll add some devshot cameras and have a play with those whilst i detail it. I'd still appreciate it if you can play some more 6v6 on it :) which I'm sure you don't mind (pick up furnace_b4 whilst you're at it too if you havent already)
 

StickZer0

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Nov 25, 2008
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Because everyoen saw Youme was making a map and instantly thought "I want in"
I though the middle cap had nothing going for it. There's no real incentive to push forward, like obvious health kits or a great height advantage, and it's a little bit confusing in the middle as to how to get on the walkways from the enemy's side.
The last point capped too easily as well I thought.
Overall I do like the map, but it's just not there yet. It also needs more rocket/sticky jumping routes.
 

Radaka

L420: High Member
May 24, 2009
491
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Nothing major here, just thought that the points felt a little bit too close together, and I feel like health placement seemed a bit off.
 
Feb 14, 2008
1,051
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I just feel that the middle is a little... dull, there's not as much opportunity for diverse and clever tactics as on Badlands, Granary, Yukon etc. It just feels like one huge chokepoint. It's got height-based combat sure, but it's incredibly tight and linear.
 

Ida

deer
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Jan 6, 2008
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I find the middle to be pretty fun. The bridges are cool, if a little confusing at first (it's hard to see where you have to go to get onto them).

By the way, there were some small "ledges" where you have to crouch jump to get up on them. I only played this map once, so I don't remember clearly, but I think they were on the sides of the middle cap. No reason to hinder movement like that.
 

Rikka

L5: Dapper Member
Feb 10, 2009
208
388
The middle point does it feel cramped during the opening rush. The area downwind of the point sees no use at all, and it seems like if I push forward even a bit I end up right next to the enemy team.
 

Memento Mori

L2: Junior Member
Mar 25, 2008
61
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I downloaded and ran through the latest version (a5). It is a great improvement on your payload maps. 2nd and last look very fun. Middle is still a bit iffy for me (honestly, they always are on customs because of how much i love badlands) but I think it offers enough opportunities for scouts or the sneaky pyro (it can be done on badlands :D ) on the side of the bridge.

However, I don't think there will be much use for the side passages to 2nd point apart from the backcap, (when the attacking team pushes to 2nd and the defending scouts go to mid through the side route).

I think in 6v6 the high ground bridge to 2nd will be used to push in and scouts just protect the tunnels/corridors. In fact, consider making the ramp into 2nd slightly less steep because I think it might offer a bigger advantage than you might think.

Much of the map is made of corridors, a bit boring and claustrophobic. Perhaps make them recessed (I think that's the word/spelling) gravelpit style, which give a false impression of open space, while keeping the narrow flow needed for secondary routes.

A lot of the map has long sightlines, especially on last. This isn't really a problem but perhaps there could be added cover from the left entrance which can see most of the final point.

As a soldier, the place I gravitated to and believe is the best position is the wooden bridge thing on the right - a little more cover from the left passage to there would help keep that position viable - a sniper could easily, with a scout or soldier supporting him, take out the medic or one of the soldiers from that position. Just a few more beam like things during the detail stage could help - like on granary, the window offers a great opportunity for sniping but the supports for the pipe give a tiny bit of cover when you are around the point. Or even some rocks, like used on Yukons right hand passage.

That's about it, I like it.
 

YM

LVL100 YM
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Dec 5, 2007
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Updated to _a6 and running a test on the EU server in half an hour.

Alpha 6 released 26/08/09:-

* Reworked far tunnel from 2nd to middle cp. (shorter, more useful)
* Started basic texturing.
* Thinned snow to around 1/3 previous density. (from 350 particles per 1024^2 to only 130)
* Adjusted spawn timers and capture timers. (Seeing too much back-capping)
* Miscellaneous small tweaks. (Moved a sign or two etc)
 

Tinker

aa
Oct 30, 2008
672
334
Backcapping is still an issue. I don't think it has to do with the cap times, or that this will help - there is a lot of space in the extra routes that takes away the attention from the caps, which should be the focus. This means teams meet each other at places they shouldn't, leaving scouts and spies to cap the points that are totally abandoned.

That said, it's still a very fun map, but I think you should make the cps the focal point of an area some more in some way.
 

Jindo

L3: Member
Aug 6, 2009
121
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This map is going to look brilliant when it's finished :D!

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I didn't find anything noticeably wrong with the map as far as game-play goes, our team won a couple of times, and eventually things turned and the enemy team started to win. Very little stale-mate action except for one round, which if something I see far too much of in Valve's 5-cp/push maps.

The one small issue I had was a couple of the signs which lead me in to walls, granted they were pointing me in the general direction of where I was supposed to be heading, but it was placed in such a way that I ended up walking for a door that wouldn't open.

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Definitely look forward to seeing this map finished!
 

Psyphil

L3: Member
Nov 6, 2007
125
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Wow! I played this map yesterday on the EU server and I was astonished by the great layout of the map! Specially the middle, it's one of the best middlecaps I've ever seen! :O

The routes leading directly to the middle need some cover between eachother, now when you choose that path and face resistance like a sniper or spam you really are forced to either go back, up the to the enemies bridge or rush into the middle to have a chance for survival. A big rock (like yukon uses for cover) or a plank to cover for snipers and other enemies on the ground would help strengthen that position a bit but still not too much. And at the same time add some terrain a good player can use in the fight for the middle (because right now it's rather plain on the ground)

Also the "beam" over the bridge(s) looks like it's be either playerclipped or jumpable by the looks of it. But when I tried I noticed it was neither, using a push-brush to keep people away may sound like a good solution in theory but when in gameplay it's really not, it adds confusion and it doesn't look good when you gets pushed by an invisible. And that you can stay on there by just walking in the other direction doesn't make it any better. I think you should either remove it or do it the traditional way.

What I really like about the middlepoint is the range between the 2 bridges, wether u meant it or not it's precisly the right length for rocketjumps and scouts with FAN (triple jump) to reach the other bridge and I think that's perfect.

The second point has a good layout too but it is way to open, a good sniper can perish a defence by from the upper route. My suggestions:
1. http://files2.bredband.net/cpuser_b298987/tf/cp_stark_a50000.jpg
The idea of having cover there is to force the sniper or any player to get closer and also to loose height, to make him easier to reach for the defenders.

2. http://files2.bredband.net/cpuser_b298987/tf/cp_stark_a50002.jpg
This cover is just to limit the sight for a sniper to ease things up for defenders.

Also I marked the ledge simply because it looks wierd to have a big ledge there just to playerclip it :)

Just out of curiosity, what on earth is the big rooflike thing (seen in pic 1) suposed to be? :)

The third and last point is pretty much, the only thing I can think of is
http://files2.bredband.net/cpuser_b298987/tf/cp_stark_a50005.jpg (yes it's supposed to be a rock) to limit the sight for attackers.

On a side note I've looked at this from a perspective of competitive play and not at all what's good for it on a 32-server.