Eureka Dunes

Waif

Waif

L7: Fancy Member
Mar 22, 2009
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Nineaxis said:
Not to be hard-headed, but I'm not convinced this is a problem. Pipeline has tunnels which act the same way (something I love about Pipeline). It offers an interesting route for attackers, is easily accessible to soldiers, scouts, and demomen. And for the other classes, they can just go through their tunnel and on the other end make a U-turn and head down the other tunnel.
Click to expand...

Still, for other classes, thats a long way to go, and they have to walk pratically right in front of the enemies spawn:p
Think about the side routes in pipeline, all of them have a way for the defending team to get into the route about half way along it, to flush out attackers who are camping near the exit.

These layouts look sort of like a giant X or Y when viewed from above.
Yours are more like || , which means double the running distance for anybody wanting to get there.

Who knows though, you are probably right :blush:
 
Nineaxis

Nineaxis

Quack Doctor
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May 19, 2008
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Mashpotatoe said:
Still, for other classes, thats a long way to go, and they have to walk pratically right in front of the enemies spawn:p
Click to expand...

If you take the path to your balcony on their side, and just hop off and go in their entrance to their balcony, you never have to pass anything.
 
T

taraph75

L1: Registered
Apr 23, 2009
48
10
Hey Nineaxis, we tested your map on tf2newbs.com payload server (which also runs stovepipe on rotation). I compiled a list of all the comments from the players:

-easy to spawn camp
stage 3 - can jump the fences during setup
-no time limit allows for stalemates, doesn't pipeline have time limits and go to stalemate if no one wins?
-it's balanced between the team because of mirror, but it's not even between offense and defense. people were spending most of their time defending
 
Nineaxis

Nineaxis

Quack Doctor
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May 19, 2008
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taraph75 said:
-easy to spawn camp
stage 3 - can jump the fences during setup
-no time limit allows for stalemates, doesn't pipeline have time limits and go to stalemate if no one wins?
-it's balanced between the team because of mirror, but it's not even between offense and defense. people were spending most of their time defending
Click to expand...

- Spawncamping is an issue I'm seeking to correct. Was it a big issue on Stage 1?
- There is no stage 3, so I'm guessing you meant stage 2, which has a fence I know you can jump. I put a setup door on the other side of it, so jumping the fence doesn't put you at an advantage
- Like Psy said, there is no timer in PLR
- I'll take a look at what I can do
 
MrAlBobo

MrAlBobo

L13: Stunning Member
Feb 20, 2008
1,059
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just adding to what taraph said, as in I am referring to the same game...

in the 2nd round the carts were completely frozen in the middle area, neither team could really advance due to the massive middle path that somehow worked as a choke point. I seem to recall in an earlier version that the balconies in that middle building extended all the way across, giving extra paths to the other teams base, that seemed to work to avoid the stalemates.
And, still talking about those balconies, as a sniper I can walk to the left side of the balcony, have a nice wall for cover if I need it, and point my cursor directly on the opponents spawn. Its quite mean.

Oh and something Ive thought would be interesting in plr is having a timer, and when the timer ends both carts start moving on their own unless someone sits on them to stop it.
 
Nineaxis

Nineaxis

Quack Doctor
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May 19, 2008
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MrAlBobo said:
in the 2nd round the carts were completely frozen in the middle area, neither team could really advance due to the massive middle path that somehow worked as a choke point. I seem to recall in an earlier version that the balconies in that middle building extended all the way across, giving extra paths to the other teams base, that seemed to work to avoid the stalemates.
And, still talking about those balconies, as a sniper I can walk to the left side of the balcony, have a nice wall for cover if I need it, and point my cursor directly on the opponents spawn. Its quite mean.
Click to expand...
I'm quite unhappy with stage 2 and will be reworking it extensively to prevent stalemates and spawncamping snipers.

MrAlBobo said:
Oh and something Ive thought would be interesting in plr is having a timer, and when the timer ends both carts start moving on their own unless someone sits on them to stop it.
Click to expand...
I generally seek to avoid modifications to the basic principles of a game mode so that players new to the map aren't confused, and anyone who has played Pipeline knows what's going on. I don't know what else to say, I work off of Valve's precedent, making a PLR map by their standards with an original layout that's hopefully fun.
 
Waif

Waif

L7: Fancy Member
Mar 22, 2009
412
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I dont think that stalemates are that big of an issue, perhaps you could add a timer that isn't shown on the hud, which slowly reduces spawn wave times the longer the round goes for?
 
Psy

Psy

The Imp Queen
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Apr 9, 2008
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How would that solve anything? Nobody would be able to reach the cart once it passes the enemy's spawn as they would respawn instantly.
 
Waif

Waif

L7: Fancy Member
Mar 22, 2009
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But it would also cause the gameplay to be more frentic, people would be rewarded greater for taking risks and flinging themselves on the cart.
High respawn times means people really don't want to die so they play deffensive.
 
Nineaxis

Nineaxis

Quack Doctor
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May 19, 2008
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Mashpotatoe said:
But it would also cause the gameplay to be more frentic, people would be rewarded greater for taking risks and flinging themselves on the cart.
High respawn times means people really don't want to die so they play deffensive.
Click to expand...

People don't want to die anyway. No one likes to die, and as too many servers could show you, instant respawn breaks the game. So there's no real good ground to modify the default spawn waves on, and I think lowering them would only cause a more deathmatchy (and therefore more stalematey) kind of gameplay. And this post on the TF2 Blog pretty much outlines why spawn waves are necessary.

I'm more for solving gameplay issues by modifying the geometry and using spawn wave times to fine tune gameplay than trying to fix a map's problems by shifting abstract numbers.
 
J

Jive Turkey

L3: Member
Jan 22, 2008
120
32
What exactly is the problem? This is just how PLR plays. At least this is how Pipeline seems to play. You push the cart to a choke point and then fight it out. I mean at the size it is, if there was no choke point that stage would be over in 1-2 min. What would be fun about that?
 
L

littleedge

L1111: Clipping Guru
aa
Mar 2, 2009
986
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I like it, Nine. What looks to be another fine map made by the great 9XS. I've got one thing from your Gameday test on Wednesday (Late, I know, but I forgot about it).

Outside on of the spawns, where the fence meets the concrete, the fence is seen in the concrete.
http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1490725/plr_eureka_a10001.jpg

I specifically like this because it reminds me of Hydro. I hate hydro, but I like the look of Hydro, which this has to me.
 
Chaopsychochick

Chaopsychochick

L4: Comfortable Member
Jun 16, 2009
189
91
Just played it for game day and wanted to share thoughts.

I really liked it over all, especially the hydro like feel of the first stage. Overall the balance seemed really good, and I felt like the first stage usually lasted a good time, not too long, but no steam rolls either.

The second stage I think still needs some work, it could take way too long to cap it, and the center area just turned into a grind fest as effectively EVERYTHING had to siphon through there. I think a side passage or two from each base to the other would be really helpful for this.

Also, with the center area, it feels like there needs to be something in the middle to block LOS, the room feels empty and too large, especially with it leading out with the big doors into the large open street.

I hope that helps. :)
 
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