PLR Nightfall

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Psy

The Imp Queen
aa
Apr 9, 2008
1,706
1,491
Playtested this last night on my community's server. Stage 1 is pretty much spot on now aside from a few niggling problems which have now been sorted. Stage 2 is up in the air at the moment. I might reverse the tracks so the carts crossover later instead of early on.
 

Psy

The Imp Queen
aa
Apr 9, 2008
1,706
1,491
plr_nightfall_a80000.jpg


Did a little more detailing on Stage 1.

(Comments on anything so far would be nice :p )
 

Psy

The Imp Queen
aa
Apr 9, 2008
1,706
1,491
Gameday bump. I need to sort something out to prevent stalemates. :\
 

Cinnamon Whirl

L1: Registered
May 9, 2008
34
6
We played this map a few times, but part 2 was a stalemate. We capped the cart by stealth, and only after several attempts.
Perhaps you could put a room near the centre of the map that offers a good SG point? would have to be useful for both teams. Once a tp and sg are up, you may find less stalemates. Currently, teams seemed to split up around the centre of the map, meaning less stratagy, and few chances for attackers to take down defences, as they have no backup.

PS
I had a take-away after gameday testing. I would describe it as offering "visually delicious contrasts between fish and chips" :) This may be my new favorite phrase.
 

Psy

The Imp Queen
aa
Apr 9, 2008
1,706
1,491
I assume you mean Stage 1 as that is the one that took 10+ minutes before somebody won.

I don't know what to do. I could add a system where whoever pushes the cart furthest within a timelimit wins the round but a headstart in the next round can only be gained by pushing the cart to the final point. The problem with this is that a team can simply push their cart pass the middle and camp the daylights out of the center preventing the other team from having a chance of winning. However it does pressure teams to move the cart...

Any thoughts on this?
 

HeaH

L8: Fancy Shmancy Member
Oct 2, 2008
553
102
Well, I just think there were one or two too strong sentry positions, one at the top of the crates and one at the back of the yard. They didn't really have any good way to take them down. One thing I noticed was that both attack and defense used the same door, which made it hard to get through it.

Stage 2 felt too long
 
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grazr

Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle
aa
Mar 4, 2008
5,441
3,814
Stage 2 was the one that keeps stalemating wasn't it? Or was it the first?

Sentry guns looking back onto the track were powerful, and hard to take out. As one had to put oneself between the SG and the enemy spawn. Also Sentries tended to be well camofluaged with the scenery in this area. Although this might improve when you remove more of the coloured dev textures.

Part of the trouble was simply that the cap point lay beyond the spawn and after the payload passed the enemy spawn it became 2 teams throwing each other at each other. The teams were so balanced only one or two got through at a time which were easily mopped up by 3 sentries and their engineers.

I don't think it's necassery to shorten your track. I love it, and the layout. But make your other paths more obvious and/or worthwhile. Going through the main route rewarded you with large health packs, height bonuses and plenty of ammo, whilst attacking the more obscure routes did not. Perhaps swap the small health kits on the path to the end of the track to medium.

I also noticed playing as red that our cart bounced off/got stuck on the rock as it reaches the cross thing on this same stage. Our cart seemed to get stuck for about half a second-whole second. It might have been because i or another player got stuck between the cart and the rock.. i'm not sure. But it's pretty close to the rock.
 
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Psy

The Imp Queen
aa
Apr 9, 2008
1,706
1,491
Thank you, Grazr. I do feel that the sideroute farthest away from the track end is somewhat underutilised but this is my fault as the one-way passage down the bottom has both a medium healthkit and ammopack in a corner which most players simply won't look at when passing by.

After rewatching the whole playtest again I still feel that the track length is a particular problem and so I've made some maybe extreme changes.

SS-2009.07.25-14.36.07.jpg

Comparison with A7

I've shrunk the back of this area a lot. It felt unneccesarily large and provided engineers with a huge span of space that a single Level 3 could cover. The one-way passage to the right has been changed to an L-shape. This will allow power classes like demos, soldiers, and heavys to use the gate to slowly chip away at sentries. (as seen in the above screenshot)

SS-2009.07.25-14.34.54.jpg


Now this overpowered sentry outside spawn can be taken down with a little bit of effort.

Here's an comparison of the new track length from above.

A7 (Old)
A8 (New)

This will hopefully make it easier to attack. If it works, great!, if not, at least I tried.
 
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Psy

The Imp Queen
aa
Apr 9, 2008
1,706
1,491
Made a load of modifications to Stage 2.

  • Added 2 more side routes into the bases that lead away from the track.
  • Completely remade the base areas. There are 3 exits out of spawn from different heights and directions so teams can no longer be pigeonholed so easily.
  • Shortened the final length of track.
  • Moved the payload closer to spawn so people immediately see their cart.

s2-1.jpg

s2-2.jpg

s2-3.jpg

s2-4.jpg

s2-5.jpg
 

Hanz

Ravin' Rabbid
aa
Jan 18, 2009
844
479
Those screenshots are looking great, can't say if it's an improvement though, because I never played stage 2.
 

Psy

The Imp Queen
aa
Apr 9, 2008
1,706
1,491
Thanks. :) Moar changes.

  • Modified the entrance to this sideroute. You no longer have to waltz so far into the enemies base in order to gain access to it. (It's the door on the left. I need to add some light there to attract players attention.)

s1-1.jpg

s1-2.jpg


  • I've changed this sideroute too. The entrance is now in the middle allowing much easier access then previously.

s1-4.jpg

s1-5.jpg


  • The cart now rolls forward down these ramps at full speed (3x).

s1-3.jpg
 

Psy

The Imp Queen
aa
Apr 9, 2008
1,706
1,491
I've changed a sideroute...again. D:

s1-6.jpg


Looky here. The right door would always end up with both teams smashing into each other which was not good. Now with the addition of a passage on the left - which is only accessible through the middle area - both teams no longer have to meet up in that tiny doorway in order to move between the middle and base areas.

s1-7.jpg


Nice and spacious. Lovely.

s1-8.jpg


That's a one-way door right there. Only opens from the passageway behind it. +1 strategic path for attackers.
 

Psy

The Imp Queen
aa
Apr 9, 2008
1,706
1,491
Updated to Alpha 8. Changelog below.

Alpha 8 - 28th July

Stage 1
  • Moved side route entrances so they are now accessible via the middle area.
  • Added 2 small healthkits in the middle beside the rocks.
  • Shrunk the base area down.
  • Shortened the track.

Stage 2
  • Completely redesigned the base areas. There are now 3 exits out of spawn from varying directions and heights.
  • Added a route which runs directly from the base through to the middle.
  • Added a sideroute heading towards the bases.

Misc
  • Added 'rolldown'. The cart now rolls down the steep slopes seen in Stages 1 and 2. The cart cannot be blocked by the enemy team and it moves at maximum speed.
  • Remove rollback at the capture points.
 

Waif

L7: Fancy Member
Mar 22, 2009
412
125
After playing in the test event, it seems there are too many side routes, and a lot of uneccessary one way doors. this results in team being split up, and everyones scattered at different places. when you compare it to pipeline, pipeline has no more then 3 sideroutes each stage per team, and they are all larger and viable.

This further results in it often ending up in complete steamrolls, as when one team has nearly got to the cap point, the other is forced to defend and can't hope to catch up.

So my suggestion is: cut down on the number of sideroutes and one way doors, but make the exisiting paths more direct and useful.
 

Psy

The Imp Queen
aa
Apr 9, 2008
1,706
1,491
How can the existing paths be made more direct? They all lead directly into the enemies base from completely different angles.

People complained that the attackers and defenders used the same paths to move between all 3 areas so I decided to move the entrances of the sideroutes to the middle area and add one-way doors so they give attackers an advantage. Before each team would smash into each other forever which just caused stalemates.

When I played this last night in a 9 v 9, the rounds were short but it wasn't a steamroll. It was often a case of both carts eventually reaching the final turn for a short while before one team managed a co-ordinated attack to remove any stragglers.
 
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Psy

The Imp Queen
aa
Apr 9, 2008
1,706
1,491
Added this new back passage which offers a connection between both areas. Entrances are at the back of each base. Takes 10 seconds as Demoman to run from one end to the other.

backroute1.jpg

backroute2.jpg


Is there anything else that anybody would like changed?
 

Psy

The Imp Queen
aa
Apr 9, 2008
1,706
1,491
Alpha 8b - 30th July

Gameplay Changes
  • Updated cart logic so the cart can be pushed when 3 or more players are pushing the cart when setup finishes. (Thanks to Boojum)
  • Moved the crossover paths (on Stage 1) further back so the carts no longer collide into each other when they reach the middle.

Layout Changes
  • Added a route at the back of Stage 1. Accessible from the back of each base and from the middle for those that can reach the balcony.
  • Extended the initial track on Stage 1 so the carts meet up at the middle later then before.
  • Removed a player clip from the windows on Stage 2 so players can jump through.

Misc
  • Added rolldown track models. (Thanks to BigRexy)