Spire

iciz

L2: Junior Member
Mar 17, 2009
84
60
Updated to Alpha 1(b)

Inspired by the unique vertical combat offered in orange_x I decided to
put my first serious mapping efforts in to creating a map with this
type of element as the main focus. This is very much an experiment in
gameplay design, not visuals. This means the look will not remain as
it is now. The plan is to crate a new (Maya/Aztec) art style for the
map after I nail down the core layout through play testing.
 
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Fireman

L4: Comfortable Member
Mar 21, 2008
150
59
I love that someone's making a serious effort to improve this map. Are you going to keep it completely dev textured in the style of the original, or is it going to end up fully detailed?
 

laghlagh

L6: Sharp Member
Jul 15, 2008
389
53
The design structure of the map right now is very crude, containing only dev textures and lots of temporary lighting because I really just want to get a feel for how it plays in the open before moving on.
I think they are temporary.
And I really like the look of it, good job!
 

Hellfire

L9: Fashionable Member
Jul 9, 2008
601
142
ran it trough, GREAT job.
btw it seams that it fixed sniper-domination style of orange))
and i thin u should let dev-textures stay)
 

uma plata

L6: Sharp Member
Jan 20, 2009
294
93
If the plan is to appeal to current players of orange, you probably want to stick with dev textures. I know a lot of players frequent orange because of low end machines.
 

Chilly

L6: Sharp Member
May 3, 2008
326
127
I commented on this on your FPSBanana post, but I'll add another thing here. If you decide to keep the dev textures, I'd highly recommend adding at least a bit of red/blue trim on certain structures in order to differentiate the two sides of the map. My other recommendations on my post were:

1. Lower the edges on walkways so they're just slightly easier to jump over.
2. Simplify and open up the inside of the tower a bit.
3. Convert ramps to stairs, especially the really steep ones.
4. Add some health.
5. Give a shortcut to the middle area for the team that caps CP4 in order to reduce stalemates.

If you decide to texture it, I think it'd look amazing with the egypt textures. There aren't that many of them so it would still be fine for lower end machines and it would fit with the pyramids.

This is the first time I've ever had fun on an orange_x remake. :)
 

StoneFrog

L6: Sharp Member
May 28, 2008
395
81
I like it! Very "clean". Don't use any orange. Please.
 

FreeLance_FoX

L6: Sharp Member
Sep 6, 2008
353
173
If it was styled to be sort of "aztec" or "temple" style it would be fantastic! I walked through it and the layout seriously seems like you've put some thought into it, so I hope you make an effort to at least make it playable by people who can't stand orange/dev textured maps. :3
 

TheDarkerSideofYourShadow

L10: Glamorous Member
Apr 12, 2008
792
286
Was very interesting to play during today's gameday. The only issue was when it devolved into a sniper fest for a bit. That is just due to the long sight lines where you can easily see the 2, 3, and 4 points from one another. If something was blocking the sight from 2 to 4, but 3 can see either and either can see 3, that might work out well.

For style/idea/etc, you could make it a mountain ridge or something, and you scale it to get to the 3rd point by going through tunnels where the current paths are, which open to the other points. Just a very rough idea of something that would make that possible.
 

bomc

L2: Junior Member
Sep 25, 2008
83
18
this is an interesting project, but it is still waaay to open. Almost every central spot in the map can be shot at from various sniper spots, which is why its too sniper friendly.

Tips/suggestions for improvement:

1) more cover. You could make more high and low places and add more houses.
2) cp 2 & 4 are way too open. You could put it inside a big house, or put it more aside from the res of the map in other ways.
3) make the middle point easier accessable. reduce the lengths of the paths leading to the point, especially the path inside the tower itself.
4) safe paths (more cover)
5) more cover
 

iciz

L2: Junior Member
Mar 17, 2009
84
60
Thank you all for the fantastic feedback. I apologize for not initially providing more information on my goals concerning this project's future. The first alpha was a little rushed, but I'm hoping to start explaining things in more detail from now on. Let me first try to answer some of the questions brought up.

My ultimate goal here is to create a small, exciting, highly replayable map featuring interactive environment elements with a dynamically changing landscape based around the points controlled by the teams. Orange X was only the starting inspiration because I love vertical combat.

I'm using the alpha stage to focus exclusively on gameplay development and experimentation. Detailing is of no concern for me at this point. There will probably be some large revisions of the map, making older versions almost unrecognizable. Nothing is off limits for this project, If changes don't work out I'll revert back and try again. I do know what I'm trying to get, just won't know till I get there. :laugh:

All dev textures are temporary. The final version will contain (God willing) all custom textures and props. I will be going for a per-Columbian era (Mayan) art style integrated into the tf2 universe. This is of coarse a HUGE undertaking for one person with limited knowledge and self discipline. Please pray for me! :unsure:

Here's a few of the things I'm working on for the next release:

  • Provide more cover.
  • Redesign walkway edges.
  • Shorten the sight lines.
  • Add more health packs. :drool1:

Not sure what I can do with the tower right now. Converting ramps to stairs was always the plan, just didn't want to add them until the layout was more nailed down.

The work so far is turning into an almost complete overhaul, meaning I'll probably not have it ready for gameday Sunday (April 12). I'm looking into releasing a smaller update instead for that. (Alpha 1b)
 

Hellfire

L9: Fashionable Member
Jul 9, 2008
601
142
any server where this map is in rotation? i wanna play it)
 
Aug 19, 2008
1,011
1,158
i liked the map, but yeah, sniperfest :)
you could completely enclose the CPs to force players to switch to different classes to protect the Control Points, something like Point A on Gravelpit, with only few niches for sniping
the second flaw are were for me the too steep ramps around 1st&2nd cp

other than that, once you start detailing, optimization will be a pain in the ass.
you will need to keep the prop-count low, and work with disappearing func_lod brushes rather than func_detail
 
Feb 14, 2008
1,051
931
If you made the centre a displacement "hill" of sorts, it could provide all kinds of interesting battles. Don't leave it dev textured.
 

iciz

L2: Junior Member
Mar 17, 2009
84
60
any server where this map is in rotation? i wanna play it)

Turtles Elite Combat Units at 63.211.105.82:27015 has it in there rotation. The Alpha Omega Clan has a 24/7 cp_spire server up as well at74.63.81.77:27016.

i liked the map, but yeah, sniperfest :)
the second flaw are were for me the too steep ramps around 1st&2nd cp

Fascinating... I've heard some people complain about this element a few times now. I'm not completely sure what it is they don't like about it. Is it too exhausting to climb such a steep staircase, or do you trip and fall off easily?

If you made the centre a displacement "hill" of sorts, it could provide all kinds of interesting battles. Don't leave it dev textured.

I just said they were temporary! Sorry for the wall of text, but it's in there.
 

AntonJ3000

I am inactive and make horrible maps
Oct 29, 2008
401
90
A better version of orange_x, but still.. Too sniper-friendly, and sniper-friendly removes the Heavy.

So make some side paths that is not sniper-friendly.
 
Aug 19, 2008
1,011
1,158
Fascinating... I've heard some people complain about this element a few times now. I'm not completely sure what it is they don't like about it. Is it too exhausting to climb such a steep staircase, or do you trip and fall off easily?

the degree the ramps go up just seems unnaturally steep, the ramps going up the spire are ok
it's nothing gamebreaking, but people are used to less steep ramps from valve's maps

ramps are usually there to allow access for wheeled objects, if the degree is too high, it's a chore to get them up a ramp
believe me, i've been pushing heavy objects and old people through a retiring home for half a year :D
 

iciz

L2: Junior Member
Mar 17, 2009
84
60
Updated

Just released a slightly improved version "alpha 1(B)" for gameday Sunday (April 12). Trying to address the sniper dominance problem by adding more cover and breaking up the sight lines.
 
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