Waste (CP)

Icarus

aa
Sep 10, 2008
2,245
1,210
Waste (CP) (Build 2.0)
by Eric "Icarus" Wong
Email: ericgfwong@hotmail.com
Download from FPSBanana
[ame=http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?p=58107]Download from TF2Maps[/ame]

Control Points
Waste (PL) has been extensively reworked and customized for 5-CP push play. Waste places an emphasis on occupying the upper levels first in order to maintain control over the various control points.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwOQxunLfew"]YouTube - Waste (CP) Intro Movie[/ame]


Objective:
To win each team must own all five Control Points.

Other Notes:
Control Points cannot be captured while they are locked.


Release Notes:
I've ported over the changes I've made for PL_v2 over to CP, with the exception that I've generally increased spawn times for winning teams.

Special Thanks:
A Boojum Snark -- Entity guru/actor
Kronixx -- Actor
Nem0 -- Actor
MungoKing -- Actor
[AoC] Clan -- 6v6 Testing
www.tf2maps.net -- for all their support and gameday servers
Clan Woof -- for being awesome
Team Fortress 2 Fort -- 6v6 Testing
Sawks -- 6v6 Testing
 
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CJLJ

L1: Registered
Apr 27, 2008
26
10
Do you have a list of changes? So far i see the ammo pack at mid, the extra doors at spawn and the filesize is a lot smaller. Is there anything else i missed?
 

uma plata

L6: Sharp Member
Jan 20, 2009
294
93
The rollup doors on either side of the 1st spawn exit seem a little slow, you bump into them before they open fully
 

Icarus

aa
Sep 10, 2008
2,245
1,210
The guys playtesting Ash Ridge couldn't emphasize enough their wish to see CP waste's set up gates removed.

If you're marketing pl waste for pubs/macroplay and cp waste for comp/microplay you should probably do as the target audience sees fit ;)

Sure, sure I concede.

But they would have to wait until the final gets out on the 29th.

I hope it's not too distracting that it's unplayable till that day.
 

Icarus

aa
Sep 10, 2008
2,245
1,210
Do you have a list of changes? So far i see the ammo pack at mid, the extra doors at spawn and the filesize is a lot smaller. Is there anything else i missed?

Sorry about the late response

-No more lame demo perches (playerclip exploit)
-the two Small health packs around the middle have been replaced with medium ammo
-Small health pack directly under the middle has been upgraded to a medium pack
-Medium Ammo in the 'shacks' in the central area have been reduced to small
-Medium Health at the 2nd forward spawns has been removed
 
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Icarus

aa
Sep 10, 2008
2,245
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Last bump for gameday.

How does everybody feel about this map? About the balance between points?
 

[O]

L3: Member
Mar 21, 2009
121
27
point 4 to point 5 seems quick at first, but with time i think players will find the sweet spots for the SGs.

i found a couple of good spawn and SG points on the ground, but not with enough metal lying around. HOWEVER, after playing for a while i realized that your intention was to emphasis on the 1st floor and not the ground. then after reading your OP for the first time, it confirmed it for me.

you have even an even sweeter area surrounding cp_4 from above:

  • well stocked with ammo
  • good views to below
  • just vulnerable enough to spy infiltration

loving the detailing by the way. its looking good.

point 3 [mid point i believe?] is well balanced i feel.

  • nice niche right next to the point- if an angie can put up a buildign there quick enough he can provide good support for a while.
  • nice opening in the corrugated steel for a sentry-still vulnerable to long distance hits which might be what you want to balance it anayway.
  • 3 or 4 routes in and out of there-great.
 
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Ida

deer
aa
Jan 6, 2008
2,289
1,372
I think this works great as CP. To be honest, its much better than the PL version in my opinion, no matter how cool that is as well.

The last point can go down pretty easily once the second-to-last has been taken. The problem isn't with the cap time - it seems to be a bit slower than on most linear maps, in fact - but that the attackers can just rush straight in while the defenders are still defending. I guess that's a big layout problem if you were to fix it, but at the very least you could probably increase the winning team's respawn time so that reinforcements can't arrive as quickly.
 

Icarus

aa
Sep 10, 2008
2,245
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Aye, exactly my thoughts.

I don't think it needs too much of an adjustment, maybe add a couple of seconds or so.
 
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Mar

Banned
Feb 12, 2009
607
63
Taken from this thread. Take a look for

Fixes for the last point:

Just a few things that i observed playing the map. I played a pretty good variety of classes too to try and get a good feel for this.

I felt that if you lost the 1st point and had to retreat back to 2nd, it was a bit of a far run. It might be easy to fix that problem if there was a little bit more cover on your way back to the 2nd point.

I felt the area on either side of the 3rd point was a bit big. I am referring to the space when you come out of the doors between 2nd and 3rd. I would like to see that space be a bit more hallway like.

Seems like there were a lot of spaces for spies to hide in. Don't get me wrong, i like a few good spy hiding places, but it seemed like they were everywhere you turned. It also seemed like they the spy hiding spots were right in the middle of the capture areas. If my memory serves me correct, i spotted about 6 spots on the 2nd capture point for a spy to spawn out of, run in, sap/kill, and bug out. I think the spy is a bit more of an annoyance than a main class (it does have its uses and all), but having this many spots to escape is just too much.

The last point is a bit on the tough side to defend. I admit that i didnt get to play engi on that point much, but... Obviously, you need to take the high ground on it to do absolutely anything at all. Throw one soldier on the point to prevent a fast cap, maybe a pyro. Demo stickies up the 1 door on the 2nd floor that everyone can funnel through. Second soldier watches the other door from the balcony. Engi builds an SG on 2nd floor overlooking the middle door and the other door. Sniper can chill on the point (I am strategizing for a 6v6, cause i like 6v6). Problem is that we don't have much pushing power at this point. To push, we would need to switch the sniper for a pyro to leave on the last point. Sniper and Engi defend, rest of the team rolls the point and we move forward.

Overall, not a terrible map. Nice work.

&


think the upstairs of the last point needs to be narrower, attackers can completely run out of the defenders line of sight, and you should make it so that defenders can spam both of the doors from the bottom floor. I don't know how to fix it, but it is really hard, even with an uber to push back from final point. Also have some bright lights on the doors upstairs so incoming attackers can't sneak in, and people are attracted to them.

And spies have tons of hiding spots on little nooks and crannies to hide in and escape to. Alot of the time the spy could drop in from above, kill a key player, and run away and no-one could find him since all the hiding spots covered his cloaked body.

Also, spies are too lethal on the final point. They can easily slip in from above, stab the 1-2 defenders on the last, and do a fast cap. The final point caps too quickly and attackers can spam and attack safely from above. Also attackers can stay out of defender's line of sight, and sneak around up stairs and jump directly on the last point.

So my fixes for the last point are.

1. add a roof over the last point so attackers can't drop down and do an insta cap.

2. increase the cap time, make it as long as GPit point C.

3. make the upstairs narrower, so that attackers can't sneak around out of the defenders line of sight. (on well, defense can see the offense.

4. Add bright lights on the doors upstairs so that attackers can't sneak through up stairs.

Personally I think that a roof over the final point and a narrow upstairs would make the last point more defend-able. As of right now the upstairs gives attackers a huge advantage, since they can hide out of the defense line of sight and they can jump from above, unnoticed, to leave a devastating attack.
 

Ida

deer
aa
Jan 6, 2008
2,289
1,372
Another thing: I noticed the forward spawns you get after capping the middle are very bright - I can't even see the floor texture, it's just...white.
 

Mar

Banned
Feb 12, 2009
607
63
Steam conversation I just had about cp_waste, will edit it tomorrow.


ATF_Mikay: We don't want to play on it. It lack flow
ATF_Mikay P ||| MPU: they say the mid is good but 2nd and last lack flow
|AoC| Mar: what would be blocking the flow?
ATF_Mikay P ||| MPU: they don't like the 2nd floor aspect
|AoC| Mar: hm
|AoC| Mar: so granary and frieght have flow right?
|AoC| Mar: but waste doesn't have flow
|AoC| Mar: well, interesting, I had somewhat of the same thoughts myself.
ATF_Mikay P ||| MPU: alright. ya well in waste it seems whoever owns the top wins...but not totally the case in granary/well/ect
 

Icarus

aa
Sep 10, 2008
2,245
1,210
I've already added some ammo and health on the first floor, and some crates/barrels for scouts to use to get to the 2nd floor. Should help some, but I don't want to be doing any major renovations.
 

Icarus

aa
Sep 10, 2008
2,245
1,210
Be sure to watch it in HD on Youtube
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8biaieFkU5g"]YouTube - Waste (CP) Intro Movie (Work in Progress)[/ame]
 

Icarus

aa
Sep 10, 2008
2,245
1,210
I don't think the jumpy camera is at fault, it's the frequency of cuts and skips in order to make it all fit in ~30 seconds.

I'll take out some clips for the final version.
 

Icarus

aa
Sep 10, 2008
2,245
1,210
cp_waste_compare.jpg