CTF The Rock final

<2F F> | PJX · Jun 5, 2021

Rock2 Revamp - A Team Fortress "Classic" Reimagined

Rock2. You are tasked to assist Ms Pauling with erasing security footage of earlier skirmishes.

OBJECTIVE:

Steal the Australium from the enemy security office.
Take it across to the other side of the enemy base to their Data storage and delete the security footage.

Originally made by Valve for Team Fotress Classic.
This Version of Rock2 is a complete reimagening to fit into Team Fortress 2's Artstyle and Gameplay.

- oldschool Theme, switched from night to day
- replaced all ladders and lifts with stairs
- widened some areas
- added a new deathpit
- improved readability
- added a bridge in mid-area
- expanded upon the original concept
- improved gameflow, added more routes to combat any dead ends
- competetive ready
- CTF Timer and Setup
- detpackable routes were opened

Also on the TF2 Workshop!
View attachment 151313

Heili · Jun 7, 2021

Seeing TFC maps ported to TF2 is a real treat because of how different they play out. You did an awesome job reimagining the level for TF2, it feels like an honest attempt bringing the map over to the sequel, not just making it 1 to 1. It'd be cool to see you remake Ravelin with the same ideas, you're pretty talented bringing TFC maps to TF2. Anyway, I have some feedback running around alone on a server.

Nobody likes fences blocking their shots, I'd recommend clipping every fence so they're solid to players, not bullets. In this case too, it's blocking the Sentry from shooting this Medic.

Respawn room visualizer should be inside every respawn room door, it looks really jarring and ugly.

Nitpick, I don't like invisible walls not letting me move against this wall, even if the pane of glass is slanted. -2554.617432 -3706.811035 483.733215

You get caught on this doorframe around here: -2554.617432 -3706.811035 483.733215

Scoring with the Australium doesn't show on the hud anywhere, though you are still playing to 3 captures. Special Delivery's pretty quirky, I'm assuming you picked it over CTF to convey that you bring the flag somewhere, not back to base. In practice, it's being called the Australium and the Intelligence by the Administrator which gets confusing, and this bug doesn't help.

I don't know what "Employees Only" means as a player, I want signage to tell me important locations like the capture zone. "Yard" was okay because it's a landmark, this confuses me as a player and clutters decision making.

This death pit outside the capture zone doesn't respawn the flag, which would be consistent with Valve's ctf_doublecross on what to do when the flag reaches a death pit (using a func_respawnflag trigger).

Resupply locker is out of sight when entering from the yard side. Mild inconvenience perhaps, but a negative one still. Maybe add another resupply to the door on the left so it's visible from here, or move it to the middle of back wall.

I imagined this part of rock2 as an open shower like you'd see in prison (which I think was the original map theme). Turning it into a urinal/sink combo looks strange. A bathroom without stalls? Why is the facility's only bathroom "employees only" from the sign outside? I'd suggest turning it into an open shower with showerheads, keep it simple.

Out of bounds, strafe jump around the sign at the capture area. Not much, but still.

Nitpick, cave rock looks too pointy -1516.526733 556.282471 -98.877434

You can build in this door near 2nd spawn

Missing overlay on these pickups on BLU side here: -1692 -3603 260
Nitpick: I prefer using white patch for health and team colored patches for ammo depending on the side. It removes guesswork if you're burning to death waiting on a pickup, hoping you're standing on the right one.

Seam in displacement a little bit off from here walking into the base: -1516 556 -98
There's another to the right of it I saw.

Bad clipping locations:
1634 2165 396
Missing window clips, makes it very jank to walk on. Would use the frame as a reference to clip on. Also, add some clipping to get out the window too, it was a little jank try to jump out and your foot gets stuck on the lip.

768 1041 644
Sniper nest door missing clips (both entrances)

1330 -884 -109
Boards easy to get stuck on

No stair clipping, yard 2nd floor, capture zone side, far right door.

The cap zone is missing stair clipping in its room too.

You can stand on this camera outside cap zone room: -2598 -5025 572
Inside the cap room, you can stand on the camera and exit sign.

Would recommend doing another clipping pass, there's just a lot of things to get caught on was my impression, especially lights to bump your head into on the ceiling. As well as turning off collision for some props you get caught on (signs, lights, pipes), or adding clipping to them so they don't stop your movement.

<2F F> | PJX · Jun 8, 2021

Thank you for your extensive feedback!
I've noted everything and I will roll out an update as soon as I can
I wanted to update the moon computers too, replacing them with the old computer models to fit in better

<2F F> | PJX · Jun 14, 2021

Update 06.15.2021

- Improved clipping
- improved lighting
- improved performance
- increased clarity of objective
- fixed HUD not working
- implemented stalemate protected CTF system
- added Chalkboards in spawns for objective overview
- expanded some OOB areas
- removed urinals
- added showers to clear the playspace
- updated sewer grates
- updated competitive stage
- fixed announcer
- added back security flank (1st floor yard)
- updated nobuild in doors
- fixed flag not beeing reset after falling into a death pit
- fixed some cubemaps
- decreased filesize
- renamed "Employees Only" to "Lockers" for clarity
- revamped Capture zone
- removed MOON props
- added standard TF2 computer models to keep it in line with the art direction @ cap
- moved capture zone furter back
- switched australium for the intel
- switched to CTF mode

Read the rest of this update entry...

Heili · Jun 14, 2021

I've got more feedback on the new version. I enjoy seeing a piece of TF history put into TF2, and I wanted to bring up the discussion to rename the map to ctf_rock instead of ctf_rock2.

According to my research, Rock2 is not a map sequel, like how de_dust and de_dust2 in Counter-Strike are separate maps. The number was just a version string that has since been considered antiquated naming practice. Other maps during that time had similar filenames I believe because there was an 8 character limit to file names at an early point. This makes sense shortening map names like Canalzone to "canalzon" and Canalzone2 "cz2" when it was updated somewhere in QWTF's life (if it even was, I didn't find a Quake Canalzone2). Subsequently, Valve didn't retcon TFC map identities except in more glaring cases that the number at the end might mean something else (2fort5 and well6). I also believe if Valve were to remaster these maps in TF2, they'd exclude version numbers from a map's identity.

It's your map of course, if you feel confident Rock is worthy to stand on its own as The Rock (ctf_rock) rather than using its history to prop itself up in TF2. Or maybe you just want to continue the map as it was in the past, rock2. After all, rock2 doesn't fit in with other modern CTF maps, and a lot of maps back in the day were more unique from one another with small gameplay twists. Rock2 could just stay as a relic of the past. I even ask if Rock was remade by Valve, would it have just been regular CTF or a new mode all together like how cp_badlands was. I think the topic's worth bringing up since you put a clear amount of effort into remastering rock2 like it'd be officially added.

Sources:
https://www.quakewiki.net/archives/jmcstfmapzone/rock1.htm (original Quake version, rock1)
https://www.quakewiki.net/archives/jmcstfmapzone/rock2.htm (Quake version 2, rock2)
https://www.quakewiki.net/archives/jmcstfmapzone/tfcrock2.htm (Valve version for TFC, continuing the name rock2 perhaps unintentionally)

Feedback:

At the sewer bend, there is a small air pocket that lets you taunt, catch a breath, and see through the map (both sides)
I'm guessing the water brush doesn't fully cover the tunnel, and you see whatever this is in first person on the left.
1395.823730 -260.815216 -297.916626

Seam at sewer exit
-1532.122070 412.181641 -236.139038

You can climb up the cap device and hide above it even as Engineer without Wrangler.
1976.397583 4667.115234 260.031311

Nitpick: mission briefing doesn't reflect the actual map objective nor does it have map loading photos.

Unnecessary invisible wall blocking a possible jump over this wall. Also pictured is this strange prop with no collision at the elbows (and isn't properly modular it looks like)
2098.130371 2409.271484 404.620331

You can jump onto this camera and hide / ambush enemies
-2807.640381 -3539.894531 506.331787

Small hole in the 3D sky rocks above crosshair visible standing here: -2611.229492 -4898.341309 267.031311

Same spot, if you're launched in the air, you can potentially see these brushes poke out of the wall. -2611.229492 -4898.341309 267.031311

Nodraw in vent above cap room (above crosshair): 1976.397583 4667.115234 260.031311

All cases of stair railings should be clipped as well so you don't shoot yourself on them or get caught walking up only to wedge in between these props. Not to mention clipping consistency.

You can still build in the yard, 2nd spawn gate. Maybe recreating the nobuild brush would fix it because the other side works right. When you build inside shutters, Engineers can heal a Sentry out of sight with the Rescue Ranger while the Sentry can shoot with less of its hitbox exposed, even camouflaged. And of course it just looks sloppy.

These seams still exist:
1279.188477 -1154.890747
1147.636475 1344.242065 39.468178

<2F F> | PJX · Jun 15, 2021

- improved clipping
- fixed some leaks and seams
- updated texures
- changed the name to "The Rock"
- added MOTD
- added Menu Photos and thumbnails
- improved prop collisions
- fixed cubemaps at cap area
- upated nobuild for doors at yard
- fixed weird water tunnel leak
- fixed hole in the skybox
- fixed geometry sticking through displacements

Read the rest of this update entry...

Heili · Jun 16, 2021

I have more feedback for you. I see you took my idea to rename the map to just rock, but the filename is "ctf_the_rock" not "ctf_rock". You took it literally and called it "ctf_the_rock". By calling it "The Rock" I meant the fictional background of the area (a prison in TFC, The Rock as inmates call it). This official chart explains what I meant:

I'd figure it'd be fictionally regarded like The Well (cp_well), Badwater Pipelines (plr_pipeline), Teufort (ctf_2fort), The Rock (ctf_rock). That said, as a player, I don't know what the purpose of this facility you've created is anymore. Is it still a prison when the watchtowers are gone in the yard? There are no facade company logos like "ACME Prison" to immerse me in the map, it feels very much barren of storytelling like in the original.

So I'd just rename the file "ctf_rock_final", or "ctf_rock_v4", v standing for version number, as a map's never truly done, just left alone. Besides, the _final tag is usually reserved for when a map gets accepted into the game (which is why _final1 maps exist).

Main issue here, the rest are in the spoiler:

The spawn door can kill players. (gif, might have to click it)
You can confirm this by walking behind a bot with "bot_mimic 1" and "bot_mimic_yaw_offset 0" as the same class and walk outside the door (stand on the drain to time it right).

You may have setup your door logic wrong using OnEndTouch instead of OnEndTouchAll. When Soldier bot leaves the trigger to close the door, it closes the door rather than waiting for everyone to have left the trigger. I’d go around the entire map switching OnStartTouch to OnStartTouchAll and OnEndTouch to OnEndTouchAll to all doors to fix this simple issue.

2501.925049 3621.335205 534.464050
You can stand on these doors without clipping to ambush or hide.

2871.253906 3820.300293 466.049103
This window is clipped while BLU side is not. I would recommend extruding the window frame as a clip brush too so you can walk across it smoothly (same for the locker windows here both sides: 1902.765747 2137.534912 393.031311)

2439.001709 -2887.618164 257.031311
This room is missing stair and doorframe clipping (both sides)

-758.999817 889.031250 641.031311
RED and BLU sniper nests are still missing clipping on the other side of the doorframe.

-528.418579 1329.481934 68.031319
At the RED front entrance, these light and sign props are solid and make silly ambush spots. This includes the ones on the other side not pictured. BLU's side is not solid.

561.814148 1132.968750 641.031311
Scouts double jumping hugging this wall would get caught retreating on these solid lights and just get in the way (both sides).

685.932434 1722.099976 720.245850
You can stand on air in the rafter room (both sides)

667.401184 2147.528076 449.031311
Doorframe missing clipping on the side (both sides)

-620.511414 -2530.828613 330.458740
Both stair railings in the yard are not clipped to match the model (both sides)

-1194.761108 1461.598877 18.892864
BLU side seam at the underground. This seam is patched on RED side.

-1384.202515 684.780762 -99.410736
Tiny seam behind boards left of crosshair (that tiny white sliver, both sides). This whole underground also still has no wall clipping, so you can't hug the wall without beams and junk stopping your movement (both sides).

-1443.364746 886.274597 -118.274490
Tiny seam between the wall and ground above the crosshair (both sides)

-319.590363 40.559643 -86.064590
The water texture at middle appears unaligned.

-79.985519 454.664490 62.087868
This small lip when jumped at will stop your movement and potentially ruin a gunfight. You could add a clip brush here or just make the bridge perpendicular.

751.508972 2191.200439 275.049164
The yard perimeter has lots of beams you'll get caught on. From a player perspective, this is all junk that gets in the way if it's not smoothed with a clip or not solid. (both sides)

555.350830 3587.157227 304.210693
Nitpick: this wall looks too pointy in yard (both sides)

571.463196 -3605.318359 452.031311
This stripe stops abruptly on BLU side only

-637.174377 -2401.771973 -80.676773
Nitpick: Scouts can still double jump out from this pit, but the death trigger so high up means you can't recover from a fall. I would lower this death trigger to at least half its height to allow recovery moves. (both sides)

1782.232056 4643.387207 273.031311;
Both cap zones still have no stair clipping, and RED side only keeps these perch points (exit sign and camera right of the BLU Soldier.

1681.408203 4235.373535 273.031311
Pillar could use clipping at the sides and the sign is just another potential solid prop to get stuck on

I would suggest swapping places with the locker and chalkboard prop in the primary spawn so players see it when they spawn, not behind them.

-1724.553345 -2330.824951 280.147308
Nitpick: You could add a drip sound to this leaky shower to add some audio depth. (both sides)
ambient\drips1.wav Drips 1, 2 and 3 are good candidates in the stock sound library.

-2594.908936 -4690.574219 292.120697
Nitpick: This clip prevents you from jumping onto this bumper easily. It'd make a great Spy hiding spot as even tiny props and corners to hide at help Spy a lot. I would remove the brush and clip it similar to the prop's bounding box so you don't get stuck on the door, but can still jump on the prop. I could say the same thing for the wooden pallet in the same area (but without clipping)

-675.252258 3542.433594 509.283325
Every respawn room trigger in the map extends outside of the door, which lets you change class standing next to it despite your team affiliation. Just make sure it's behind the respawn room visualizer.

-190.597305 3519.436768 887.563721
This prop group seems to be casting shadows onto itself, which makes it look unnaturally dark. This bugs me as well whenever it happens, you can try disabling vertex lighting on the props, disabling shadows, setting an info_lighting origin, or double check your compile settings to include -staticproppolys -textureshadows and -staticproplighting. I refer to this article whenever it happens to me: https://nodraw.net/2010/12/lighting-compile-options/

-2219.771240 -4952.968750 260.031311
Nodraw visible at the cap zone, left of crosshair (both sides)

-2363.000488 2208.726563 403.031311
Perch point at security doorframe, and has no clipping around the frame (both sides)

Nitpick: Briefing looks nice, though I would remove the "SCORING:" section to keep it minimal. I'd also match the capitalization as seen from official examples here: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/TF2/Modifying_the_Mission_Briefing

1072.471069 -2276.915283 460.031311
BLU side only, this beam is nonsolid while it is solid on RED.

-2539.948486 -3639.942139 260.031311
Nitpick: Would appreciate another Data Storage sign pointing left on this wall (also said wall has a misaligned texture right of the metal door)

-2119.839600 -4415.777832 247.862991
Cap zone doorframe without clipping gets you caught moving through.

-741.070251 -1890.464478 644.031311
This doorframe just misses the frame, thus you can get caught on the brush. Same for RED, same for the left and right doors of this rafter area.

-48.172379 1855.031250 494.079926
No clipping on this doorframe on BLU side only while RED has it.

-794.575073 2265.065674 607.031311
You can stand on this security vent, it seems to be from the clip vertice being on the wall. I usually nudge the vertice inside the wall to prevent edgebugging, then nudge it up vertically to keep it steep.

1164.270264 2874.416992 354.602356
Doesn't hurt to add clipping around the doorframe, everyone appreciates not bumping into walls

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CTF The Rock final

<2F F> | PJX

L1: Registered

Heili

L3: Member

<2F F> | PJX

L1: Registered

<2F F> | PJX

L1: Registered

Heili

L3: Member

<2F F> | PJX

L1: Registered

Heili

L3: Member

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