Suspension Bridge

PL Suspension Bridge A1.2

I Darkstar X

L3: Member
Oct 19, 2017
115
10
Suspension Bridge - The water is almost as troubled as the land above it!

-MAP IS CURRENTLY VERY UNFINISHED! ONLY 2/4 CAPTURE POINTS EXIST!-

Trying my hand at another map project. Payload this time, since I enjoy mapping for that gamemode over any others.

It is, or will be, fairly large, but dense enough that the issue of scale is nullified. The centerpiece being a large suspension bridge over some murky water. The payload begins its life up a small tunnel and across a storage yard in a quaint shed. From there it moves windingly through a structure and around some storage containers to the first point at the mouth of the tunnel. Snaking across the bridge which is strewn with decrepit vehicles -and even a crashed bomber!- towards the second control point guarded with a wooden shack hastily constructed by RED.

The size of this map greatly favors large player counts and stalwart holds for every inch of rail. BLU should have to pay for each one, and should be kept from snowballing at all costs!
 

TheFluffycart

L3: Member
Jul 6, 2019
142
41
Yo, I took a look at this and I have a few things to comment on for it. The first thing is the payload stalls (The crate dropping, and the barriers). They might seem fun on paper, but it's really just annoying to deal with over and over again. Another small detail is that when it shoots at those, you disabled the push trigger, instead of setting the speed to 0. This is going to cause rounds to be lost even when someone is at the cart, leading to people getting mad. The mid area also suffers a bit. Both gameplay and story wise, it makes absolutely no sense. Gameplay wise, it's a mess of props thrown in to make it not seem empty/possibly block sightlines, with no good attacking or defending angles. Story wise, it makes no sense how everything became such a mess. Was the plane towing an entire train behind it, or did they decide, "Let's rest these 2 crates and a train car on this van's tarp, which can't support that". Finally, the wooden building near last is way too tight. I do want to mention tho, that the plane tangled in the wires is a cool affect, and that the shooting debris would be really cool if you saved it for 1 area instead of every 5 feet. I also like the building that the cart goes through as of now. It feels somewhat cramped, but not in a bad way (That might change with playtesting tho). Overall, it isn't a hell on earth map, it just needs a lot less prop spam, and more attention to making it fun to play.
 

I Darkstar X

L3: Member
Oct 19, 2017
115
10
Yo, I took a look at this and I have a few things to comment on for it. The first thing is the payload stalls (The crate dropping, and the barriers). They might seem fun on paper, but it's really just annoying to deal with over and over again. Another small detail is that when it shoots at those, you disabled the push trigger, instead of setting the speed to 0. This is going to cause rounds to be lost even when someone is at the cart, leading to people getting mad. The mid area also suffers a bit. Both gameplay and story wise, it makes absolutely no sense. Gameplay wise, it's a mess of props thrown in to make it not seem empty/possibly block sightlines, with no good attacking or defending angles. Story wise, it makes no sense how everything became such a mess. Was the plane towing an entire train behind it, or did they decide, "Let's rest these 2 crates and a train car on this van's tarp, which can't support that". Finally, the wooden building near last is way too tight. I do want to mention tho, that the plane tangled in the wires is a cool affect, and that the shooting debris would be really cool if you saved it for 1 area instead of every 5 feet. I also like the building that the cart goes through as of now. It feels somewhat cramped, but not in a bad way (That might change with playtesting tho). Overall, it isn't a hell on earth map, it just needs a lot less prop spam, and more attention to making it fun to play.

Firstly, thank you for playing and for commenting!

The blockers (specifically the stuff the cart blows up) are intended to delay the blue snowball for a few seconds. However, I realize after talking it over with a friend that human players will not typically snowball. (And instead possibly C9.) The crate dropping serves to lengthen the effective track length. Of everything, this is the least likely to be changed. When I get around to it it will look much nicer, and might even move via a door instead of paths to avoid getting stuck, but only if it continues to have problems. If it isn’t broken, right?

next, the push disable. This is the way that the frontline demo is it, and I admit I just copy and pasted the I/O. I do realize that that could very well happen, that if it occurred during overtime it would end the round. Naturally this should be avoided at all costs! I find trains all of their movement-related inputs quite finicky and admittedly intimidating, however. I worry that if I were to set the train speed to 0 it would be stuck permanently at 0. And, by that same logic if I set the speed to anything else it would then be stuck at that speed. I am sure there is a way around this, but I am not sure how to go about finding it. Until then, I could have it add time to the round timer equal to how long the push zone is disabled, so when the push zone is reactivated they’re back in overtime. Some testing will be required as that is very bootleg, however.

and the Mid area... Well to be frank, I had no choice, there simply aren’t any better props that I would prefer. There are no 18-wheeler prop models, as just one example. Barely any vehicles to boot! I had to download a vehicle pack just to give it the tiniest sense of variety. But yes, if I could, I would use all cars. and the shipping containers are the only prop that size i could find with two open ends like that. As for the tarp, well this is a game where eating a sandwich heals bullet wounds, setting off explosives at your feet launches you through the air intact and not in tiny pieces, and drinking soda makes you impervious to everything except falling off a cliff. A shipping container resting on a truck’s tarp hardly seems like much of a stretch XD

The shack fort at B is quite close-quarters, yes, and to be perfectly honest it was more trouble that it was worth to build and then reblock out in block bullet toolbrushes, but I couldn’t exactly put any other kind of structure there, and an alternative “structure”, if not a wooden fort, would be a pile of vehicles and scrap, which would look even more bizzare.

I am glad you like the bomber tangled in the wires! It took a lot of effort to make the wires look tangled, and I admit I gave up after doing half of them anyway as I was getting eye strain from staring at the tiny grids, haha. I wanted it to at as sight line disruptor from the second floor of the fort, forcing snipers to stand in the open by their spawn or settle for mid-range.

The first structure on the cart’s path, the orange one with the cranes, is intended to be a holdout for Red, with its tight entrances yet cover less interior affording it better to the defenders, but of course it’s only good for a small section of the track, and without teleported they might struggle to reinforce it if it gets swarmed, which should hopefully produce some intense moments for both teams. ^^
 
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TheFluffycart

L3: Member
Jul 6, 2019
142
41
Hey thanks for the reply! A few things because it is good to know. While it is good to have some form of roll protection, the ways in which you did it get stale after the first one. My first view of this map was actually in a call with some friends playing it, and the overall reaction to the path blocks/crate were negative. If you really want to keep one in, I'd suggest lowering it to 1 instead of multiple (The crate was actually the most disliked part of that area, so it is slightly broke).

The push disable is a big problem, but can be fixed with the same solution for the problem above. Removing the blocks leads to the cart not stopping as much, and if you position it after a point, it wouldn't matter if it disabled the push because time was added, so no round losses ^^. However, I did forget to mention a few things in the last comment. The building area near blue's first spawn is a clip indication problem. It looks like you can go in between the buildings/in between the 2 rows. You really have to indicate that a clip brush is there, or it's going to be annoying for people playing. I also don't recommend having the cart path go sideways. The part on the hill has a hovering cart, and it looks really weird.

My main point on mid got a bit confused, so I'm going to clarify. The props not making sense was me trying to joke around to make the criticism a little easier to take. The main problem is the fact that instead of making a fun layout with brushes, you've done what's called prop spam. Prop spam is when you throw random props around that have no need to be there, for gameplay or visual reasons (i.e. the entirety of mid). I don't mean to be mean to you, but mid is in all honesty just AWFUL to try and walk around. If you do redesign it, please use brushes instead of props, because it makes the gameplay a lot more fun for the player (Again, none of this is against you, but rather towards the map. You seem like a cool person, and I'm glad you replied with your side ^^).

As for the fort, I'd honestly recommend knocking out a wall near the back and open it up a little. I don't have a paragraph reply for this spot, it's one of the better areas of the map, and I'd keep that for play testing. The back orange area just overall feels like the best part of the map. My final notes, are that there are a bit too many full health kits in the map, and they're in really weird spots (Like the one way area, or the entry to a busy building). There is also a really nasty sightline from mid, to red's spawn near the point. That's all I have to comment on, if you have anything I missed from your end, feel free to comment on that so every thing is clear ^^.
 

I Darkstar X

L3: Member
Oct 19, 2017
115
10
-Changed a lot of pickups, such as Orange Crane Building having a full on the top floor and medium on the bottom.

-Removed 3/4 of the blockades

-Cart no longer reverses when the crate drops

-Crate drop looks better

-Added a catwalk from behind B to midway from B to the Tunnel

-Cut off second Red Spawn to further limit sightlines

-Changed tunnel track to no longer go sideways

-Better indicated clips of houses

-Added a small doorway at the back of B's Fort.

Read the rest of this update entry...
 

I Darkstar X

L3: Member
Oct 19, 2017
115
10
Hey thanks for the reply! A few things because it is good to know. While it is good to have some form of roll protection, the ways in which you did it get stale after the first one. My first view of this map was actually in a call with some friends playing it, and the overall reaction to the path blocks/crate were negative. If you really want to keep one in, I'd suggest lowering it to 1 instead of multiple (The crate was actually the most disliked part of that area, so it is slightly broke).


The push disable is a big problem, but can be fixed with the same solution for the problem above. Removing the blocks leads to the cart not stopping as much, and if you position it after a point, it wouldn't matter if it disabled the push because time was added, so no round losses ^^. However, I did forget to mention a few things in the last comment. The building area near blue's first spawn is a clip indication problem. It looks like you can go in between the buildings/in between the 2 rows. You really have to indicate that a clip brush is there, or it's going to be annoying for people playing. I also don't recommend having the cart path go sideways. The part on the hill has a hovering cart, and it looks really weird.


My main point on mid got a bit confused, so I'm going to clarify. The props not making sense was me trying to joke around to make the criticism a little easier to take. The main problem is the fact that instead of making a fun layout with brushes, you've done what's called prop spam. Prop spam is when you throw random props around that have no need to be there, for gameplay or visual reasons (i.e. the entirety of mid). I don't mean to be mean to you, but mid is in all honesty just AWFUL to try and walk around. If you do redesign it, please use brushes instead of props, because it makes the gameplay a lot more fun for the player (Again, none of this is against you, but rather towards the map. You seem like a cool person, and I'm glad you replied with your side ^^).


As for the fort, I'd honestly recommend knocking out a wall near the back and open it up a little. I don't have a paragraph reply for this spot, it's one of the better areas of the map, and I'd keep that for play testing. The back orange area just overall feels like the best part of the map. My final notes, are that there are a bit too many full health kits in the map, and they're in really weird spots (Like the one way area, or the entry to a busy building). There is also a really nasty sightline from mid, to red's spawn near the point. That's all I have to comment on, if you have anything I missed from your end, feel free to comment on that so every thing is clear ^^.

Firstly I want to apologize for my late response. Finals are approaching and registration for next semester was a headache, and, as always, family needed attention.

I have taken your words to heart, and in PA2, have removed all but one of the explosive blockers, with the one left right at the start so time is not an issue. This should remedy the push disable issue as well. The cart no longer reverses when the crate drops either, moving only along the intended path. The crate’s dropping is purely harmless eye-candy now.

I added indicators of clips to the pointless buildings which I will probably turn around to face the street and be even more pointless. The sideways cart part is also fixed, it turns at the bottom and only goes straight on the slope. I resisted the urge to make it a roll forward in spite of physics. The cart only obeys the laws of physics when it benefits red team anyway. XD

There are a lot of angles to move through mid, and does seem quite confusing. I will try to change the layout, perhaps with an interior area below the bridge accessible only by catwalks? With only a large wall on the top of the bridge red can pass through/over on their side but only blue jumpers can on their. That is all very early conceptualization, however, so it will probably take me a while to get that sorted, so the bridge will have to remain as is until I can plan that out so it links up correctly still. Rest assured it is in the pipeline! It just might take a while. QoL fixes, like the clip indicators and the path change, I wanted to release first for their ease of implementation.

The fort has been given a new door at the back, though it is a bit narrow so I might widen it by around double in the future. The amount of full health packs has been decreased. The side bits now have a double medium so they’re still strong resupply points for being so out of the way. The full heal in the orange building was moved up a floor with a medium replacing it so there is still lots of foot traffic through there, as intended. Your last point on the sight line has been blocked up completely. Perhaps a cheap solution, but players were never supposed to go there anyway.

Thank you for your extraordinarily in-depth comments! It is a great help and I enjoy responding and discussing to them. I hope I can continue to improve with yours and any others’ feedback!
 

TheFluffycart

L3: Member
Jul 6, 2019
142
41
On the comment of ignoring feedback from the review, I should make it clear what I was talking about. You did listen to quite a bit of it, but the feedback you chose to listen to were the smaller things, rather than the big glaring problem of the bridge and too many props. That's the biggest thing that's hurting the map right now, and it's not fun to navigate that area. I admit I goofed up the wording a bit there (and possibly coming off rude, so sorry for that ^^"), but I meant to say ignoring the feedback on the big part. In this state, I'd honestly say work on reworking mid and making it an actual playable space (Including that weird underneath area you added. That just feels weird). I'm sorry for the 2 star, but it's going to stay until mid gets the love it needs.
 

I Darkstar X

L3: Member
Oct 19, 2017
115
10
-The bridge has been redone, with props being used to block off the path instead of make a path. The main track instead curls underneath the bridge. It certainly looks janky, but anything is better than prop spam, right?

-Blue spawn has had some work done and should hopefully feel much less cramped than it did before. No more bopping your heads, unless you really try.

-All dead RED team members respawn instantly upon A being capped. Get out there and take your revenge!

-The pointless structures have been flipped around, so now they cannot watch the battle.

-But then because I was feeling sorry for them I added spectator cameras around the map so they could still follow along at home.

-The mid zone of A point had some crates removed and replaced with a small structure. Why? No idea.

-Redirected air traffic to accommodate the new structure.

-Spawn timers have been adjusted, hopefully for the better.

-Other fiddly stuff no one cares about.

Read the rest of this update entry...
 

I Darkstar X

L3: Member
Oct 19, 2017
115
10
-Made the debris created when the shipping container drops smaller. I can't think of a way to make that into a pun of "leave no stone unturned."

-The battlements Blue door now is less jank. It looks considerably more flimsy now though, but that's fine probably.

-All catwalks have had their texture scaled down and given a border so they're easier to see. Now you have no excuse for walking off the edge.

-The Red tanks have been clipped so they cannot be stood on. They're private property, you see.

-That one sightline form the bridge's right side has been culled. Hopefully.

-Added protective walls to the upper exits by A point, so Red can better defend themselves from angery snipers.

Read the rest of this update entry...
 

I Darkstar X

L3: Member
Oct 19, 2017
115
10
-The gray part of the bridge path has been visually improved. I like 2/1 slopes and I cannot lie.

-The gray part has been widened a tiny bit at the second and thrid platforms where most of the fighting happened, so it is less precarious to traverse.

-Added guardrails to the gray part. Now you have even less chance for falling off like that. You know who you are.

-A great deal of attempts at optimization. Areaportals are a mite tricky.

-The B point fort is made entirely from brushes now as part of the above change. While much less pretty, it should run better.

-The skybox on the A arena has been moved so the skybox is not right next to walking paths as much as possible. No more confusing others into thinking it is a bottomless pit.

-Fixed the Frontline cart so that players cannot get stuck inside. No more giving the driver a high-five, sadly.

-One tank has been pushed off into the water, so if you, as red, fall between the two boxcars on the bridge blockade, you will no longer be trapped if you do not posses the power of U P.

-An extra flanking path form the second gray path platform to right next to the elevator. No more excessive choking at the orange hanging structure for pyros, even with the guardrails.

-Secret stuff not for public viewing yet. No, Yrrzy, it is not an I/O Boss.

Read the rest of this update entry...
 

I Darkstar X

L3: Member
Oct 19, 2017
115
10
-The Bridge triggers that let RED pass back and forth between the two buildings now do not go away when the point flips. Though realistically you could just smash the glass and escape.

-The cart no longer rolls forward at the last point where it isn't supposed to. It has to wait for death like the rest of us.

-BLU's second spawn now has lights. Maybe Blutarch forgot to pay the electricity bill or something.

--EXPERIMENTAL ADDITIONS!--

Strafe 3 has been enabled. I was flip-flopping on whether or not to include this, since when its up it blocks a sightline from the top of the fort to the third point, but when its down it gives BLU more cover to push out from. After flipping back and forth I've decided to enable it for testing purposes. So please, tell me what you think of it!

Read the rest of this update entry...
 

I Darkstar X

L3: Member
Oct 19, 2017
115
10
-Adjusted ceilings in the final point area to make the area feel less like a box. Society does enough of that already.

-Flipped the stairs at the start of the final area around again. Hopefully that is significant.

-Modified the front end of the red platform at the top of the interior zone so it is a little bit lower, which should hopefully be more interesting than it was before. Fingers crossed.

-Some black magic with hints. You have no proof that there isn't a tiny digital witch inside the hammer.exe who does all the visleaf stuff. Huh, that sounds like an anime...

Read the rest of this update entry...