[Contest Entry] pl_frontier

MangyCarface

MangyCarface

Mapper
aa
Feb 26, 2008
1,626
1,325
Ah, I forgot to adjust the cart's height. This is an easy fix. Additionally, I'll recenter the train's origin based on its new length and reset the distance between its wheels, lending a more realistic curvature to its path. As for getting stuck... I'll look into it.

That line flubber... that's a video card problem... hopefully yours isn't breaking :S
The reason the last little hut thing isn't nobuild is because snipers and soldiers have an enormous sight line straight to that area with good cover from a number of points, meaning sentries up there *generally* don't last long. Remember enjies can still mount point B on gravelpit as well as a number of spy-inaccessible areas in other maps. I will however reexamine this feature, thanks ;)
 
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Arhurt

Arhurt

L6: Sharp Member
May 7, 2008
315
140
Some feedback from the folk at The Mental Clinic:

________________________________________________

And the verdict is: great fun and even greater train model!

We played it for about 1:15 hours and we all had a blast. There is still a few glitches and you need clearer direction on where to go when you spawn but on the whole, this is awesome.

If you compare it to badwater, this one is better.
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Yes I agree it is much better than Badwater. I too had a good time.
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great map and that is the coolest payload. I do agree that it does need some arrows for direction. i do believe there were several barrels i could walk through if i remember but i will need to verify that when im not getting shot at.
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Altaco

Altaco

L420: High Member
Jul 3, 2008
484
120
Youme said:
Why is everyone so bloody quick to dish out info lightings???

If anything you should be telling people to light their maps properly rather than create a dozen exceptions to the lighting rad works out.
I trust mangy knows about the extra compile commands and he just hasn't used them yet to reduce compile times. I also trust that mangy understands that these commands light props properly rather than using a single points source for the whole prop. I also trust that mangy understands that info_lighting entities are far better suited for prop_dynamic rather than prop_static generally

Serously though, stop using info_lighting entities or even telling people to use them and start lighting maps properly.

/rant
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Info_lighting isn't for the shadows that the props cast, it's for the shadows on the props themselves, when the origin of a prop is inside geometry and makes the model dark. This fix, while it turns out nice results, works for lightmap shadows, not lighting on props. In a lot of cases, honestly though, that nice lighting trick only looks nice with very low lightmap scales. Otherwise, I've found, it ends up looking kinda blotchy. For fences and that sort of thing, I've found it's easier and in fact better looking to just remove shadows.

Ontopic, played it today with a server full of people. We had great fun.
 
YM

YM

LVL100 YM
aa
Dec 5, 2007
7,135
6,056
Altaco said:
Info_lighting isn't for the shadows that the props cast, it's for the shadows on the props themselves, when the origin of a prop is inside geometry and makes the model dark. This fix, while it turns out nice results, works for lightmap shadows, not lighting on props. In a lot of cases, honestly though, that nice lighting trick only looks nice with very low lightmap scales. Otherwise, I've found, it ends up looking kinda blotchy. For fences and that sort of thing, I've found it's easier and in fact better looking to just remove shadows.
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You pretty much missed everything I said. The stuff in that tutorial doesn't just do shadows cast by props it sorts out all the shadows cast on actual surface of the props too. So regardless of wether you have an origin inside geometry or not the prop will still be nicely lit. The info_lighting when used in this instance is a botched work around for not compiling your map properly in the first place.

Furthermore an info_lighting wouldn't help these particular props for the reasons I stated before: their origin isn't inside geometry, it's well clear of any brushwork, the problem is that they are facing the wrong way, those particular props will only be lit from one side, that side in that screenshot was facing away from the lightsource, which makes the whole prop dark.
 
RavenStryker

RavenStryker

Former Alias: †Blade†/Xi.Cynx
aa
Nov 25, 2008
782
845
Arhurt said:
Some feedback from the folk at The Mental Clinic:

Quote:
________________________________________________

And the verdict is: great fun and even greater train model!

We played it for about 1:15 hours and we all had a blast. There is still a few glitches and you need clearer direction on where to go when you spawn but on the whole, this is awesome.

If you compare it to badwater, this one is better.
________________________________________________

Yes I agree it is much better than Badwater. I too had a good time.
________________________________________________

great map and that is the coolest payload. I do agree that it does need some arrows for direction. i do believe there were several barrels i could walk through if i remember but i will need to verify that when im not getting shot at.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I agree with that as well, some more arrow signs would be great! Just cause of when the spawns get switched I heard a lot of people saying that they got lost and they couldn't find a direction sign anywhere. Sometimes less is more. But in this case, more is prolly the route to go. Maybe some signs that show which way what checkpoint is. 1,2,3,4 and final.
 
Altaco

Altaco

L420: High Member
Jul 3, 2008
484
120
Youme said:
You pretty much missed everything I said. The stuff in that tutorial doesn't just do shadows cast by props it sorts out all the shadows cast on actual surface of the props too. So regardless of wether you have an origin inside geometry or not the prop will still be nicely lit. The info_lighting when used in this instance is a botched work around for not compiling your map properly in the first place.

Furthermore an info_lighting wouldn't help these particular props for the reasons I stated before: their origin isn't inside geometry, it's well clear of any brushwork, the problem is that they are facing the wrong way, those particular props will only be lit from one side, that side in that screenshot was facing away from the lightsource, which makes the whole prop dark.
Click to expand...

Oh, whoops.

I need to read things more carefully.
 
C

clubtheseals

L1: Registered
Mar 20, 2008
9
1
UC server

Over at ubercharged.net we just threw this on our server and I must say, this is the greatest map I've ever played. In addition to being easily out most popular map, it's brought in many new pubbers to our server. Keep up the good work. Oh, Youme, your maps are going up too.
 
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Tinker

Tinker

aa
Oct 30, 2008
672
334
Few things:

Well, obviously the car clipping, but it also needs quite a few more arrows - especially when BLU gets the spawn that was RED's first (I think), there's a huge RED arrow pointing the WRONG WAY just outside the spawn. Maybe make that badwater-style switching, or something.

Also, there seem to be some fps issues.
 
D

DarkNoghri

L1: Registered
Aug 3, 2008
14
5
When I was running around on this map with one other person, the train had just come out of blue spawn. As a red guy, I was standing on the train as it rolled back through the team-only spawn entrance. It pulled me through with it. I could then run around inside blue's spawn.
 
PMAvers

PMAvers

L6: Sharp Member
Jan 29, 2008
389
142
Random thought, after some playtesting on my server, but point #1 seems to be a meatgrinder, especially if the train gets pushed up to the point, but the offense gets wiped out. It often feels like they can't mount enough of a O to actually push and get the train back, and just get butchered in the valley. It seems sometimes that if they don't take the point in the first wave, they won't take it at all.

I wonder if it's due to the proximity of the defense's spawn to the point, since they can reinforce the choke point very easily.

Otherwise, they really do love the map. So much fun. :D
 
Cerious

Cerious

L420: High Member
Aug 10, 2008
455
133
Of course point one is too difficult, the red spawn is right next to the goddamn point.
 
MangyCarface

MangyCarface

Mapper
aa
Feb 26, 2008
1,626
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Cerious, diagnostically, that's not the problem at all. The point is hard to capture because sentries stack well on it. I have to restructure the area a bit so that offense can set up easier and pin red down harder. Moving their spawn is a temporary solution, especially when you can in effect simulate such a change with respawn timers.
 
YM

YM

LVL100 YM
aa
Dec 5, 2007
7,135
6,056
heh, the front page links to alpha 13, didnt check if the link is still active but you might want to change that ;)
 
C

ClydeJr

L1: Registered
Oct 30, 2008
20
4
We have b1 set up on one of our servers. The times we played it, we were able to get past point 1, although many of us commented that the distance between the start and p1 felt huge. The biggest issue we seemed to have was that long straight uphill leading to point 2. The offense could never push past it. Usually the train could get near the turn at the top but never far past it. I think the biggest complaint was that there seemed to be too many flanking routes that the defense could use to get behind the offense. Every time the offense set up to push, you'd get pryos, soldiers, and demos coming from the building to the right (when you're looking uphill) that would take out medics, engie toys, etc. If you tried to push up through that building, it would get bottlenecked since you're fighting up the stairs.

Several people commented about fps drops too, but I imagine that you're still working on further optimization.
 
Cerious

Cerious

L420: High Member
Aug 10, 2008
455
133
This map is essentially one big, uphill ramp, really, and has so many convoluted passageways to get lost in. It's basically a defending pyro's heaven.
 
laghlagh

laghlagh

L6: Sharp Member
Jul 15, 2008
389
53
|Cerious| said:
This map is essentially one big, uphill ramp, really, and has so many convoluted passageways to get lost in. It's basically a defending pyro's heaven.
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Go troll somewhere else.
 
Cerious

Cerious

L420: High Member
Aug 10, 2008
455
133
Notoorjus said:
Go troll somewhere else.
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I'm not trolling, just stating my opinion. There are so many corridors, passageways, and little nooks and crannies to hide in that it basically is really hard to push forward. I have NEVER seen this map get to the end. Sure it looks nice, but I just don't like the gameplay. It's either that the spawns are way too close, red has too many height advantages over blu, or it's so easy to get lost in. The uphill nature of the second point and the longevity of both the first and second points are just horrific for attackers. If you're going to make the map any easier, move ALL the points forward except for the final. This map is just too difficult in any environment in its current state.
 
flubber

flubber

L4: Comfortable Member
Nov 16, 2007
171
35
|Cerious| said:
I'm not trolling, just stating my opinion. There are so many corridors, passageways, and little nooks and crannies to hide in that it basically is really hard to push forward. I have NEVER seen this map get to the end. Sure it looks nice, but I just don't like the gameplay. It's either that the spawns are way too close, red has too many height advantages over blu, or it's so easy to get lost in. The uphill nature of the second point and the longevity of both the first and second points are just horrific for attackers. If you're going to make the map any easier, move ALL the points forward except for the final. This map is just too difficult in any environment in its current state.
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The only spawn problem i see on frontier is the last red spawn way too close to the end (especially with sentry over the cart). The map is usually 50-50 of offense winning/losing. And the dominating class is demo more than pyro. First point is usually falling pretty fast second it's more difficult but once it's down third follow pretty quickly making the map almost always ending on the last point. I love the map it's on two of our servers and became a classic for us.
 
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