ChronoTriggerFan said:
What's wrong with the buildings all over the place? If you do have a problem with them, such as too much cover, visual blockage, etc, please do speak out, but I can't read your mind here.
I think what he means is there's no specific route to take, when players hit the ground level there's a mish mash of paths to take before entering cap point A. It's hard to get up a specific defence that wont get taken out from afar because of all the corners to shoot from and any one sentry that has any cover is easily ambushed by just one person, let alone several. imo point A should have only one floor and the possibility to defend it from the roof like point B on gravel pit.
All the buildings look overly cumbersome. Some are fine.. red spawn.. but there's no real size difference which doesn't make your map very interesting. With the same height issues as the first round of my avante map. Point A simply suffers from too many path distractions and corners. A defence is incredibly difficult as it pretty much has to restrict itself within the cap building to keep from being picked off, but is easily wiped out by a sudden full team rush with/or uber.
ChronoTriggerFan said:
Generally I think thats the players fault for guessing the distance between 2 points wrong. As the map maker I really can't do very much to tell people how far they can jump and still land, thats up to them. If your meaning something completely different and I'm just interpreting this the wrong way, please explain it with more than an abstract sentence.
A path should be visible and obvious to players, and it shouldn't complicate the gameplay. I found it difficult to traverse the steppings stones partly because of the huge scale that makes things like anticipating jumping distances more difficult than they would normally be. I also found myself bouncing off legde egdes that appeared to be traversable, and only then by the faster classes with jump crouching. Which shouldn't be necassery.
The "stepping stones" should probably be more "linear", reduce the size of the buildings (like those on Gravelpit point A that scouts can jump over, but not necasserily allow for being able to jump across roof tops (although that would be cool and offer a new dynamic to point a)) and make the stepping stones follow a more obvious path rather than having them appear as generic platforms that look like they could take you anywhere. I can't see what you've changed here as there are no screen shots and steam isn't working for me so i can't check it out for myself even though i just dl'd it....... but that was my experience before a8.
ChronoTriggerFan said:
Your argument is pretty lame right there. If you do see a specific problem with the layout of it, please do tell, but I'm pretty much getting the feeling your trolling the map rather than providing feedback to help improve cp_tributary and make it a better map.
The thing is there's no real layout as such to be braught to justification for any bad gameplay issues. You've tried in point A to open up possibilities of attack but only trully reduced it with the water. Getting to point A simply feels like a clumsy process. The only solution to this would be to allow players to get back onto the platforms after falling off into the water. They'd get picked off well enough doing this, that is enough punishment. The platforms should also vary in size and shape.. perhaps have a fairly long one and a few odd circular ones at either end. So that players don't have to jump every step to the cap point if they decide to go that way.
I can't say much for point B as i only saw it once because i got lost underwater. Cap-points wern't made obvious coming out of spawn; the area was unnecasserily huge. This could benefit with a door either side of the spawn leading to either specific cap point, with maybe a hatch in the floor to the last through the water. Maybe give B a slight height advantage, say half a player's height (again, like gravel pit). Add more cover around B as it's very open outside.
I have to agree with what Youme said even though it wasn't very specific but it takes a lot to explain without being able to grab stuff in hammer and physically show you what would be more appropriate. But ultimately you need to funnel your players more, there are no real kill zones other than the points themselves (which don't specifically get that much attention either after any initial attack to clear out any bulk of defence) and battles end up as one player vs another player all over the place.
edit: I don't think attackers should be able to get "behind" cap C. There's a lot of distance to traverse before getting around this area. To much oppotunity to walk around it getting kills and not enough emphasise on the need to cap the point. Very sniper friendly for attackers.
I'll grab paint and some screen shots and go over some things if you would like; when steam starts working again. If you need it explaining more. Sorry for so much text.
