flubber
L4: Comfortable Member
- Nov 16, 2007
- 171
- 35
[Contest Entry] pl_frontier
- Thread starter MangyCarface
- Start date
Toughsox
L1: Registered
- Oct 31, 2008
- 14
- 1
We just ran thru a11 with Mangy.....I gotta say, for an alpha map, this was extremely well laid out and balanced in my opinion. I was on both sides and the general reception on our full 30 person server was fabulous. Even afterwards when the map changed, they were still talking about it.
The offer goes out that when you want to try it out, just come fetch me.
WELL DONE !!!:wow:
The offer goes out that when you want to try it out, just come fetch me.
WELL DONE !!!:wow:
- Feb 26, 2008
- 1,626
- 1,325
Sorry for the lack of updates. Currently on a13, but waiting til 14 to release to closed public again, there's a tiny tiny bug in a13 atm. a12 blew ass. Also working on special cart effects with several contributors, that should please everyone... just keeping yall updated
Looking forward to the next release. We had a10 on the server tonight and some random guy kept raving about how it's his new favorite map. 
I can't wait until I can stop explaining dev textures to people though.
I can't wait until I can stop explaining dev textures to people though. 
Forthex
L2: Junior Member
- Aug 2, 2008
- 80
- 12
I remember I tired to explain in game that I hated the first red spawn, but I was too concentrated on getting my ass kicked and I couldn't properly explain what I meant. Once the train had moved up to just before the first cap, it annoyed me that demos got the bright idea to camp the red spawn by hiding in the corridor above the ramp to the right of the first red spawn.
Here are some FLOOR_MASTER inspired screen shots notes.
Here are some FLOOR_MASTER inspired screen shots notes.
- Feb 26, 2008
- 1,626
- 1,325
Will definitely implement that, Forthex. But the next version will not be released for awhile... I have begun the detail passsssssss fuck it's gonna be a couple weeks.
In the meantime, I'd like you all to play the shit out of a13. It has a very minor bug but not big enough to patch (if you're in Red's first spawn room as cp1 is capped, you get sent back 2 spawns instead of 1) This will of course be fixed in the future, my apologies for now.
A13 is pretty well balanced. You can see a successful defense on all the points; in this order:
CP1: Medium difficulty to defend. If you prevent BLU from taking the upper hill and the building with the one-way door, you might be able to stall them long enough. However, expect to lose this point often.
CP2: Hard difficulty to defend. Fall back quick if you lose CP1! A fluid defense works best here, denying BLU their flanking opportunities and making use of the dropdowns available to RED will help you win, but oftentimes BLU will push through you here. Don't let 'em!
CP3: Tough for BLU to take. This point actually benefits from multiple sentries. Keep BLU from taking the one-way room and destroy their ubers and it's possible to defend here; the Warehouse should be your fallback, so keep a base up in there. This is your chance to have a more head-on battle rather than having to flank heavily as in the earlier points. Still, BLU may more often than not eke out a win in overtime.
CP4: This point really tests BLU's coordination- it can be taken in a minute or failed to be taken after 14. Don't let BLU down onto the cliffside- they can flank you to death very easily from down there. The likelihood of RED winning is determined by how well they did on the first 3 points; if they pushed BLU hard before relinquishing the points, BLU could have less than 6 minutes to make the final push; but a lazy defense will give BLU 14 minutes to keep trying. Good luck!
Known bugs:
-Sometimes get stuck in the one-way doors
-Very very small issues with train itself. These are mostly resolved by now.
-Teleport too far back if you stay in RED spawn while CP1 is captured.
-Random graphical errors (nodrawed stairs, etc) that I'll fix in the detail pass.
Props to Ovens for the sweet artwork, and Nineaxis and F_M for their great posters.
Thank yous to all feedback providers, especially 2f2f and FLOOR_MASTER.
That's about it. Please have fun!
Alpha 13
In the meantime, I'd like you all to play the shit out of a13. It has a very minor bug but not big enough to patch (if you're in Red's first spawn room as cp1 is capped, you get sent back 2 spawns instead of 1) This will of course be fixed in the future, my apologies for now.
A13 is pretty well balanced. You can see a successful defense on all the points; in this order:
CP1: Medium difficulty to defend. If you prevent BLU from taking the upper hill and the building with the one-way door, you might be able to stall them long enough. However, expect to lose this point often.
CP2: Hard difficulty to defend. Fall back quick if you lose CP1! A fluid defense works best here, denying BLU their flanking opportunities and making use of the dropdowns available to RED will help you win, but oftentimes BLU will push through you here. Don't let 'em!
CP3: Tough for BLU to take. This point actually benefits from multiple sentries. Keep BLU from taking the one-way room and destroy their ubers and it's possible to defend here; the Warehouse should be your fallback, so keep a base up in there. This is your chance to have a more head-on battle rather than having to flank heavily as in the earlier points. Still, BLU may more often than not eke out a win in overtime.
CP4: This point really tests BLU's coordination- it can be taken in a minute or failed to be taken after 14. Don't let BLU down onto the cliffside- they can flank you to death very easily from down there. The likelihood of RED winning is determined by how well they did on the first 3 points; if they pushed BLU hard before relinquishing the points, BLU could have less than 6 minutes to make the final push; but a lazy defense will give BLU 14 minutes to keep trying. Good luck!
Known bugs:
-Sometimes get stuck in the one-way doors
-Very very small issues with train itself. These are mostly resolved by now.
-Teleport too far back if you stay in RED spawn while CP1 is captured.
-Random graphical errors (nodrawed stairs, etc) that I'll fix in the detail pass.
Props to Ovens for the sweet artwork, and Nineaxis and F_M for their great posters.
Thank yous to all feedback providers, especially 2f2f and FLOOR_MASTER.
That's about it. Please have fun!
Alpha 13
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FWIW:
For comparison's sake:
The win distribution in a13 isn't ideal, but I'd rather see the round go to completion than not. I think the "None" percentage is alarmingly high - a very tiny nudge in BLU's favor for that point would help - a medium or large health pack near the preferred BLU sniper place (stand at CP1 and look towards BLU) or something similar -- something to keep BLU in play and out of the spawn queue rather than tweaking the spawn timers.
As I've mentioned before, the map now hinges mainly on team balance, which is a Very Good Place to Be.
I'm really happy with the feedback cycle we have in place and how quickly new ideas were turned into playable prototypes.
Code:
Final BLU captures:
pl_frontier_a2:
CP2 1 (50%)
None 1 (50%)
pl_frontier_a3:
CP1 2 (17%)
CP3 1 (8%)
CP4 5 (42%)
None 4 (33%)
pl_frontier_a4:
CP1 5 (50%)
CP3 1 (10%)
CP4 2 (20%)
None 2 (20%)
pl_frontier_a5:
CP1 1 (12%)
CP2 1 (12%)
CP3 1 (12%)
CP4 2 (25%)
None 3 (38%)
pl_frontier_a6:
CP1 1 (25%)
CP2 1 (25%)
CP4 2 (50%)
pl_frontier_a7:
CP2 1 (25%)
CP3 1 (25%)
CP4 1 (25%)
None 1 (25%)
pl_frontier_a8:
CP2 1 (6%)
CP4 10 (59%)
None 6 (35%)
pl_frontier_a9:
CP3 1 (17%)
CP4 4 (67%)
None 1 (17%)
pl_frontier_a10:
CP1 1 (4%)
CP2 1 (4%)
CP3 2 (9%)
CP4 14 (61%)
None 5 (22%)
pl_frontier_a11:
CP2 2 (9%)
CP3 1 (4%)
CP4 11 (48%)
None 9 (39%)
pl_frontier_a12:
CP1 1 (8%)
CP2 2 (17%)
CP4 6 (50%)
None 3 (25%)
pl_frontier_a13:
CP1 4 (9%)
CP2 1 (2%)
CP3 4 (9%)
CP4 25 (53%)
None 13 (28%)For comparison's sake:
Code:
pl_badwater:
#Badwater_cap_1 76 (15%)
#Badwater_cap_2 57 (11%)
#Badwater_cap_3 107 (21%)
#Badwater_cap_4 208 (40%)
None 70 (14%)The win distribution in a13 isn't ideal, but I'd rather see the round go to completion than not. I think the "None" percentage is alarmingly high - a very tiny nudge in BLU's favor for that point would help - a medium or large health pack near the preferred BLU sniper place (stand at CP1 and look towards BLU) or something similar -- something to keep BLU in play and out of the spawn queue rather than tweaking the spawn timers.
As I've mentioned before, the map now hinges mainly on team balance, which is a Very Good Place to Be.
I'm really happy with the feedback cycle we have in place and how quickly new ideas were turned into playable prototypes.
FLOOR_MASTER is that a plugin you made to calculate those percentages? If so, would you be willing to share it? My server also runs custom maps and it wouldn't hurt showing even more information to help out mappers
FLOOR_MASTER is that a plugin you made to calculate those percentages? If so, would you be willing to share it? My server also runs custom maps and it wouldn't hurt showing even more information to help out mappers
Same.
I'm hesitant to release this since it's really a 10 minute hackjob that I hastily wrote to produce a single piece of data, but I'll put it out there for those who want to tweak it for their use: mapstats.pl
TF2Maps admins: Apparently any word with a dollar sign preceding it is filtered out? I wasn't able to paste the code directly into this post.
TF2Maps admins: Apparently any word with a dollar sign preceding it is filtered out? I wasn't able to paste the code directly into this post.
Additional bugs in a13:
The lighting is weird on the ground right outside the blue spawn. I'm not sure if it should look like that, but it seems like it should be a dark area.
You can see through the rock formation.
This isn't a bug, but it still bothers me that the rocks are so far from the beams.
Since the blue part isn't needed on the back, perhaps it should be left off? Or is it used elsewhere and/or like this by default?
It's possible to get on top of the circular rock area at the start. An engineer can build up here by building a sentry on the opposite ledge and jumping a teleporter exit across. Soldiers, demomen, and scouts can get up much more easily.
It's possible to get onto the building outside the first red spawn. I'm talking about the big building with the one-way door. He either made it up there or was off the edge of the map over there. In any case, some additional clipping should help. I don't have a picture because I saw it tonight for the first time.
We've noticed a couple of times where the flatbed has disconnected from the engine on the train. Most of the time it separates by a foot or two and keeps moving with the train, but we've also seen it completely disconnect once.
You can see through the stairs near the blue spawn.
The lighting is weird on the ground right outside the blue spawn. I'm not sure if it should look like that, but it seems like it should be a dark area.
You can see through the rock formation.
This isn't a bug, but it still bothers me that the rocks are so far from the beams.
Since the blue part isn't needed on the back, perhaps it should be left off? Or is it used elsewhere and/or like this by default?
It's possible to get on top of the circular rock area at the start. An engineer can build up here by building a sentry on the opposite ledge and jumping a teleporter exit across. Soldiers, demomen, and scouts can get up much more easily.
It's possible to get onto the building outside the first red spawn. I'm talking about the big building with the one-way door. He either made it up there or was off the edge of the map over there. In any case, some additional clipping should help. I don't have a picture because I saw it tonight for the first time.
We've noticed a couple of times where the flatbed has disconnected from the engine on the train. Most of the time it separates by a foot or two and keeps moving with the train, but we've also seen it completely disconnect once.
You can see through the stairs near the blue spawn.
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TheDarkerSideofYourShadow
L10: Glamorous Member
- Apr 12, 2008
- 792
- 286
For the blue arrow, it is a model where one side is red and the other blue. To cover that up requires a brush, and I assume that would be added at some point, since the sigh is just floating there.
- Feb 26, 2008
- 1,626
- 1,325
Ah, thanks chilly, rest assured those will all be addressed for beta.
Any gameplay comments?
Any gameplay comments?
It's been atleast a week since I've played frontier, but from what I remember I think I'd remove the secondary path that blue can take to get behind the final point. The points opened up enough from the front. At the very least, make it so that you have to rocket/sticky jump to get there. I think I would also open up the area around the first point too, from what I remember it was fairly closed in and blue team tended to plow through until they hit an area that was more opened up.
We had nearly a full server (9-10 or 10-11, I believe) and everyone seemed to have a fun time with it. The first checkpoint was fine... one team held it and the other didn't. The successful defense included a single sentry that the enemy team just didn't organize to take out.
For the team that made it through the first checkpoint, the second went pretty well, with the defense making a stand at the last 30 feet of track before the checkpoint. The alternate routes worked pretty well to allow the attackers to push properly. My lone complaint on this area is that there's a very narrow area that the defenders need to cover here, so it's possible you'll see good defenses focus on this area of the map with a couple sentries and demomen. That's to be expected, and at least there's areas where the attackers can build their ubers.
The third checkpoint played as it normally does... hard to take and very spammy in the room itself. We found it was a great area for pyros that wanted to rush at the train, and the attackers couldn't really counter this because you can't see them coming (they come up over the top from behind the corner). Not a big deal, but I see this as being a highlight of the map for pyros and heavies.
The final area was won, but just barely. The defense had a couple of sentries up and it was very hard to push in and use them properly. This is mainly because of the lack of teamwork on BLU (nobody wanted to defend the forward base and instead ran in on their own). I think it'll play really well once the map is done. I had a few awesome fights with a scout (as an engie) on the rear rock tiers. Good times.
Overall it seems balanced. I gave up on setting teleporters when attacking except for the last area, since there really wasn't a use. Other than that it went really well.
I disagree 100% with this. That area is an excellent forward base for BLU, but isn't overpowered in any way. Demomen and soldiers in that area can do very little due to limited sight lines and protection. The area works best for engineers and medics building uber, which is good because those areas don't exist elsewhere on the map. Plus an observant defense will keep the area pretty clean, so it becomes one of the focus areas of the "stage".
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The handful of times I've played, if blu's made it to that final point, they're going to win because they're coming from the front and the back. I'm fine with leaving the area there, but make it somewhat harder to get up to the point, or atleast make the path lead to slightly infront of the platform that the cart falls from.
However, there are many places that you can build an uber near the last point, like on the otherside of the rocks with the big steps. That area has ample cover.
However, there are many places that you can build an uber near the last point, like on the otherside of the rocks with the big steps. That area has ample cover.
- Feb 26, 2008
- 1,626
- 1,325
Slowly and surely, progress is made:
(Notes: Everything is tentative. No -final, so no pretty shadows. Dev textures slowly being replaced. If you spot an error I've probably already fixed it. Just giving people a feel for the theming of the map)
(Notes: Everything is tentative. No -final, so no pretty shadows. Dev textures slowly being replaced. If you spot an error I've probably already fixed it. Just giving people a feel for the theming of the map)
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It's coming a long very nicely. We played the new version at G4B2S last night and it went very well as usual. People get confused by the train for some reason. I like the (New? or am I just oblivious to my surroundings?) ramp up to red spawn on the right side (facing the final point)
Those metal panels are dark because they are facing the wrong way, just rotate them through 180 degrees to allow the light to hit the other side.
The model is made out of a single sheet of polygons, whilst you can see the texture from both sides they only light from one side so you gotta make sure that side faces the light source unfortunately or else you get dark props