How to come up with map layouts?

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Ghost007c

L1: Registered
Mar 4, 2017
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I have had some difficulty coming up with balanced map layouts for both teams, as well as making the map fun to play on. Any suggestions?
 

Micnax

Back from the dead (again)
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Apr 25, 2009
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Trial and error, mostly. You learn greatly from experience too, but I'd say the main aspects to consider are height variation, cover, and scale.

Height variation makes things interesting. Because of how damage dealt is calculated in TF2, people on higher ground generally hit for more damage, so they're favourable for defending against attackers or given as a reward to attackers after capturing a point (nothing like a little payback after hard work). Having different routes with varying heights can make gameplay super interesting.

Cover is essential for both teams, though it has to be balanced well with height variation. A high ground with lots of cover will be very difficult for attackers to take on, so giving more cover for the defenders instead can balance the battle and give them places to retreat and regroup for another attack.

Scale is probably the most important. Generally you want to aim for a 8-15 second running distance between the first spawn and the first objective point. Taking too long to walk somewhere can be boring, and is even more annoying if you get killed and have to do the walk again. In Hammer, you can drop down a prop_static of a player model (ie. Heavy) to see how big your map is relative to what the player size is. Try to look at official map sizes and spaces for how those areas are scaled.
 

Ghost007c

L1: Registered
Mar 4, 2017
5
14
Trial and error, mostly. You learn greatly from experience too, but I'd say the main aspects to consider are height variation, cover, and scale.

Height variation makes things interesting. Because of how damage dealt is calculated in TF2, people on higher ground generally hit for more damage, so they're favourable for defending against attackers or given as a reward to attackers after capturing a point (nothing like a little payback after hard work). Having different routes with varying heights can make gameplay super interesting.

Cover is essential for both teams, though it has to be balanced well with height variation. A high ground with lots of cover will be very difficult for attackers to take on, so giving more cover for the defenders instead can balance the battle and give them places to retreat and regroup for another attack.

Scale is probably the most important. Generally you want to aim for a 8-15 second running distance between the first spawn and the first objective point. Taking too long to walk somewhere can be boring, and is even more annoying if you get killed and have to do the walk again. In Hammer, you can drop down a prop_static of a player model (ie. Heavy) to see how big your map is relative to what the player size is. Try to look at official map sizes and spaces for how those areas are scaled.
I already have a demoman as one of my scales and found out that my spawn room was huge compared to the player. Thanks for the advice!
 

Micnax

Back from the dead (again)
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Apr 25, 2009
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I already have a demoman as one of my scales and found out that my spawn room was huge compared to the player. Thanks for the advice!
As a term of reference, most people prefer 160hu or 192hu wall heights. 256hu also maybe but anything higher and you'll take fall damage when dropping down.
 

Ghost007c

L1: Registered
Mar 4, 2017
5
14
As a term of reference, most people prefer 160hu or 192hu wall heights. 256hu also maybe but anything higher and you'll take fall damage when dropping down.
Ah yes, fall damage. Thanks for the tip!
 

CriminalBunny

Lasers are just deadly rainbows
aa
Oct 11, 2013
273
413
Grazr has made a guide on balancing and making layouts back in 2009. You can check it here! It focuses more on the Attack Defense gamemodes in terms of layout but the balancing part works for almost (if not all) gamemodes. It also talks about height variety, and he later made a thread focusing on scale! [Link here]
 

The Guy You Know

L1: Registered
Jun 18, 2016
36
7
Think of designs that would be cool for a map, thinking of a theme before attempting to make a map helps me at least. all the other links people posted too are good resources for map layouts
 

theatreTECHIE

Yet another Techie for the net...
aa
Jun 19, 2015
446
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The two good maps that I've made I did by thinking of a cool aspect for a point, then thinking about each class as I make the route through the area. I've tried pen and paper before, and while I can use it to think about ideas, I've found that just making it in hammer on the fly comes out with a better result for me. Probably why I barely have time in the 72 hour jams to do anything more than the first block out.
 

Yrr

An Actual Deer
aa
Sep 20, 2015
1,308
2,743
Making a canvas to work with that you're ok with deleting and remaking big parts of is a lot easier than trying to make it perfect from the start.

which is something i keep having to remind myself too
 

[Rx.] Christian Troy

L5: Dapper Member
Jan 23, 2017
223
64
One of my things is mixing reality with imagination.

When out and about in the real world, I look.at things sometimes then think "Hey, that would be cool in map.". Stuff like buildings I see, area layouts, even objects like certain tables, lights, and chairs, etc.

One good expamle is a Cs:go map I created based on my workplace. I work in a manufacturing environment so I walked into work one day, looked around the place and thought "This would make a really cool hostage map". So I began to make it happen.

Tf2 is a bit different though but you get the idea ;)
 

nitewalker

L2: Junior Member
Aug 5, 2014
64
141
it's very difficult (read: impossible) to decide when and where to be creative or inspired. sitting in front of your computer with hammer open and forcing yourself to map is often an excercise in frustration, and can lead to self doubt or a lack of interest in mapping.

a lot of great writers carry a notebook with them all of the time, so that at any time if they see something inspiring or have an idea spring to mind, they can jot it down immediately. I've started doing that with mapping too, and it's helped immensely in actually being productive when i have hammer open. if im out running errands and i see a building with a particular feature, or walk through a room and notice something that i hadnt noticed before, its often enough to jog my creativity. i can't even begin to count the number of ideas that i've had that have just been lost to the ether because i forgot about them between the time i had them and got a chance to make them into a map. being able to write that idea down immediately or sketch out a 45 second layout to solidify that idea in my mind means that when i sit down to start mapping, i have a plan already, which is unbelievably helpful in cranking out layouts.

it's also important to recognize that creating a layout gets easier with time. with each map you make, you get more comfortable with the tools, you get more comfortable scaling appropriately, you get more comfortable with what kinds of features make for an interesting map. thats why one of the most important steps that you can take to improve yourself as a mapper is to actually put out a map, get people playing on it and testing it, and revise based on that. the more often you manage to get multiple versions of a map out, the better off you will be when you next start from scratch.
 

Mess About

L7: Fancy Member
Jan 16, 2017
404
178
creating layout is easy, the damn detailing is the one that give me headache, i just have no vision of how my maps gonna look like
 

Asd417

Sample Text
aa
Mar 20, 2016
1,451
1,031
creating layout is easy, the damn detailing is the one that give me headache, i just have no vision of how my maps gonna look like
Creating a layout is easy
But creating an interesting, unique and balanced layout is hard.
Hell, I could even call a box with two spawn points a layout