[WIP] CP_Avanti_District

cp_avanti was the original name for the TFC map. I mentioned a few pages back that i had chosen cp_avante. It means the same thing but in portugese (sp?) instead of spanish.. or something like that. Using just cp_avanti would have been a bit of a rip off to the original author.

As they said, the word means forward and the level itself is a constant uphill push to the last cp. Hopefully people will recognise both the name and layout. Neither are exactly the same but close enough to be appreciated; one hopes.

CP3 was always a problem on the original too, i tried to remedy this by opening up the far side entrance, which now has a bay to allow the scout to reach the cp from above with his double jump.

Anyway, i'm about to buildcubemaps for uploading a playable version. I'll come back and edit with a link.

Bump* So that people see i've put a link to the dl.

avanti_b1

i had noticed the health pack thing after compiling, i intend to fix this of course.

Not sure where you're talking about though, about the clipping issue. Is that the one where you have to run down some steps, through the puddle, then up some steps to get into it? If so that's probably the areaportal messing up, but.. i didn't have any problems when i ran it. I'll give it another looksie.

edit: I had a look, it seems to be ok from outside but not inside for me. Strange. I'm not sure why this is, it was fine the last time i compiled it and nothings changed bar the addition of 2 hint brushes in the first stage and fixing a round gate that was still set to "touches opens it".

They are areaportal windows, two of them, though each one has a different fade distance, does this matter? One has 2000 (the one outside) and the other 1300 (on the inside). I have no idea why they are doing that..

Thanks for giving it a run through.

I'll try and list some of the errors and what i intend to do about them.

1. PMavers pointed this out and i'm on it, i'll have to do some tweaking or just remove them as there is nothing visably wrong with the portals.

2. I hadn't really noticed, i'll take it into consideration. slower classes shouldn't have much as a problem as the scout does. I'll watch this closely in playtests.

3. There's supposed to be a world map there but i deleted the other version, must have effected this one too. I might remove it all together as it takes up a fair amount of vertical space. You could say, the 4th cp is still under construction.

4. I mentioned already that lighting is sparce at the 4th cp and i am working on it. I released it in the hopes for gameplay feedback before i finalise anything, obviously visual feedback is welcome too.

5. I don't believe it has a physics mesh, i'll clip it.

6. Ok. (you repeated this image btw)

7. I clipped this off as i didn't want "those sorts of people" sitting back lobbing spam at the team below as they steam roll the rest of the team doing their job. I'm not sure why a scout would want to get their either. I will add more props there to deter the impression that it is a useful accessable vantage point.

8 & 9. On it.

10. I was aware of this from the start but unaviodable because of the prop in the other room. In the next beta i intend to remove said prop and have a prop room visable through the floor, this will also allow me to widen that doorway.

11. It was lowered because of some venting details i had, but decided to remove it. I havn't bothered fixing up the spawns with detail yet. Expect this area to be different in the next beta.

12. Fixed.

13. This wont be noticable when i compile with youme's lighting parameters.

14. I'll remove the arrow, it did bug me but the wall was bare (without it). I'll add another overlay there but probably leave the sign where it is.

15. This has been bugging me from the start, it is because the displacements overlap. Hopefully youme's lighting parameters will fix this, if not, i'll have to seriously edit the displacement set up of the surrounding area. I was happy leaving this for the early Beta's. Though it is high on my priorities.

16. I will add more lighting here on the wall behind the prop.

17. It's supposed to be yellow, i actually took that light right out of valve's own gold pit. I'll make it more yellow.

18. Point taken though i'm not sure i agree; and i need it that tall to block an areaportal behind it.

19. It is clipped. The shack you're on seemed too low to clip without making it seem weird. Hopefully, the fact that people will be rushing towards the next cp that this wont be much of a map issue. A lot of the time i run through valve maps i see things like this, but rendered irrelavent because people pay attention to map goals. I will keep an eye on it in play tests though.

20. I have been considering this. Though completing layout was first priority, and then gameplay. It is on the "to do list".

21. this area is incomplete in Beta1.

22. Ok.

23. Are you pointing out that it's broken? See 1.

24. Fixed

25. On it

26. It shouldn't show for blue, i don't know why it's doing that. I'll take a look.

27. I'll widen the door to help. Anyone who played the original will be aware of this route and where it leads, those that don't will hopefully realise this soon enough. I predict this wont be an issue as players learn the map as we all have to with new maps. I will add an arrow on the left wall if i have to. The doors position on the right is for optimisation reasons.

28. See 4.

29. See 1.

30. See 13

31. Fixed.

32. I'll consider it. I understand what you mean, and i have actually removed them and added them multiple times through development. But i am hoping the arrows will thrust the players forwards rather than have them spew out at the top of the stairs in multiple directions.

33. Fixed.

34. I've added arrows to pathways with only one destination, the final cp. I understand that the left hand side could be overlooked as you sort of need to turn around, but there's 2 arrows and a sign pointing in the right direction if it wasn't obvious enough. Follow the arrows and you should be fine, i will watch this closely however in playtests seeing as i already know the layout; having created it.

I will make an effert on the clipping side of things which i have missed trying to get the first beta out. I had mentioned pointing out lighting issues may be a waste of time as i intend to sort that out in the final beta's and am aware of what needs to be done. Most of this is menial but some very helpful points are made.

edit: i'll get some comparison shots for you.

Comparison screen shots. For those interested or whom havn't made the connection to my layout.

The second area has undergone the most significant modification for a number of reasons. I have improved in my ability to replicate the TF2 theme. A church has little place in a industrial environement and is now a warehouse of sorts. The right passage way to 4th cp is now an access point to the warehouse to improve on optimisation and make for a more interesting environment. The principle layout remains intact. Access to the church has been made from the left and right instead of behind; as sequencial TF2 maps have the tendancy to be won most easily by "spawn camp as a number of people cap". So i have directed the attackers away from the defenders spawn as much as possible. TFC did not have spawn wait times and i have had to design the level with this in mind. Also, i didn't wan to simply rip off the original as most porters tend to do.

As far as those suggestions go:

1. Appraising

2. Appraising

3. Addressed

4. Appraising

5. Addressed

6. Addressed

7. To address

8. Addressed

9. Addressed

10. To address

11. To address

12. Addressed

13. Irrelavent

14. Addressed

15. Addressed

16. Addressed

17. Addressed

18. Irrelavent

19. Irrelavent

20. To address

21. To address

22. To address

23. Appraising

24. Addressed

25. To address

26. Addressed

27. Irrelavent

28. To address

29. Appraising

30. Irrelavent

31. Addressed

32. Irrelavent

33. Addressed

34. Appraising

Also, if anyone is able to compile a skybox version of this model :- models/props_mining/conveyor_belt.mdl I would be eternally greaftul as i could cut half of my first section away into the 3dskybox. As in testing most of the system load goes into the lightmaps.


I predict Beta 2 for tuesday evening. Either this or B3 will be submitted to the gameday next weekend. I think i may get B3 out for the Friday of this same week (if B3 is necassery this early) as this is when i intend to tackle the areaportals issue. For now, i will disable the portal windows. Regular portals remain working.

*bump from 4 pages back; so people can feedback after gameday.

What i seemed to gather is move up visualisers to gate. Sort out the height difference in the first area, remove winding corridors from the last. A lot of people got lost even though there are loads of signs around.

Should i remove the middle area that goes underneath the last point? That seemed to confuse a LOT of people.

But i will open up the last area as a lot of people said it bore little resemblance (which admitadly it doesn't) to the original.

Do you have any screen shots of these dead ends cat? Pretty much every path circles back onto the main route.

I'll address the spawn camping issue in round 1. Valve removed their gate visualisers in dustbowl, and tfc_avanti only had a static sentry for defence that didn't really cover much of the spawn room anyway. I guess i didn't get away with that though.

I'm deffinately going to open up the last cp, mostly on the right. Opening up the doorways and the right hand side should make access to the final point more direct too. So that should resolve your concerns Fred.

Playing it with about 8 vs 8 gave me a good scale comparrison, and some idea's that should hopefully make assault on the first cp a little easier on blu, with regards of getting out of the gates. Assaulting the cp itself didn't seem to be a problem. Atleast for on team

I think i know where you mean, just before cp 2? Was intended as a hiding spot incase one person got ahead of his team and decided to wait and ambush/flank red.

Here are some changes i am implementing:

Top left, this was the most significant complaint. Although signs were plentiful people were still getting lost after their 4th round in this area. I've deleted a lot but kept the barrier in the form of fences. to be fair, i think it looks a lot nicer too.

Bottom left, removed fences, it just impaired moving space.

Bottom right was another complaint. Small doorways. I will maker larger doors as i attempted to illustrate, which are also more direct to the final cp.

Lowering the sections you see in tje top right image. A lot of comments about unnecasserily large heights around this area.



One thing i was surprised about was how well balanced it was (spawn camping issue aside). Cap times seemed ok; there was just the issue of long blu spawn waiting times in the second round (which didn't seem to refrain the blu team from winning the map). But it would seem prudent to reduce blu spawn time, reduce the time given by the cp's (blu would often have 12 minutes to cap the last point)and perhaps add an extra second or two to cap times. Hopefully that all adds up to a smoother experience, and reduce the spawn "campability" of the first round.

Thanks. I have wanted to reduce the spawn area but for the most part, avanti's original spawn was just as large and the effect it gave was a bit more of a delay in getting to the first cp as one could just turn the corner and demo jump right onto the cp. I'll see what i can do. That means moving a lot of things around; mainly the spawn.

The area where you got stuck goes largely un-noticed as it's actually a fair walk for the defenders in the first place; without taking the longer route through the buildings to a defencive position of little consequence (no cp's and longer route for attackers). I'm trying to address this constantly. I'm not sure whether to remove it altogether or add in an advanced spawn here or what as it was TFc's spawning technique spawning at the previous captured cp) that made this layout work well. The gameplay theory behind this area is fine but it's just a bit out of the way to really matter in terms of the core gameplay. In all honesty that was supposed to just be a prop room down there, but i opened it up in the last minute to make the entrance room (which was already there) more important/significant.

There are still a few details that need clipping of course, the final cp area is the main culprit as it's largely under construction still (despite how whole it may appear).

Restricting the central path through/below the building may emphasise the 2 side paths. I just wanted to add something to compensate for the lack of the detpack entrance that gave direct access to the last cp on the original. Since the right path would be easily locked down even by one sentry.

These are some bigger changes and will take a while to implement, i'm gonna concentrate on uni and probably release a third beta for the christmas holidays, whilst also trying to do the payload competition. A map which will probably have a little less detail.

I'll keep you posted with some shots and the next compile within the month though.