Lets talk about the next 72hrJam!

When should the next jam start? Jam will start in the evening GMT.

  • 24th - 27th June

    Votes: 11 27.5%
  • 1st - 3rd July

    Votes: 10 25.0%
  • 8th - 11th July

    Votes: 10 25.0%
  • 15th - 18th July

    Votes: 13 32.5%
  • 22nd - 25th July

    Votes: 8 20.0%
  • 29th July - 1st August

    Votes: 5 12.5%
  • 5th - 8th August

    Votes: 5 12.5%

  • Total voters
    40

LeSwordfish

semi-trained quasi-professional
aa
Aug 8, 2010
4,102
6,597
The last 72hrJam was the largest event we ever ran - and we're going to do another one in summer! As usual, this is the thread to discuss what we should do differently next time and when we should run the event!

So, things to talk about:
  • When do you want it run? The best time is probably the end of june or july - but what times could people make? What times do you guys want it?
  • What went well last time? What should we not change?
  • What went badly? What do you want to do differently?

We'll probably be doing another Exhibition game, but we'll put up a separate thread to discuss that.

Some suggestions that were already made:
  • More testing, more people playing in tests.
  • Themes (good themes.)
  • A subforum/dedicated page for the event.
What do you think of these ideas?

Those of you who are fans of speed-mapping, stay tuned - we might be having another smaller event for that some time soon.
 

Hyperion

L16: Grid Member
aa
Jun 8, 2015
840
659
Automated servers for testing would be hot, maybe @Fantasmos can do it with @Geit. Other than that I think last 72hr was as good as it can get
 

Joshenkstone

L5: Dapper Member
Oct 24, 2015
208
184
it would indeed be realy nice if it happen in late june or somewhere else in july.
 

Jethro

MUSty Complainer
Nov 2, 2009
287
281
Prizes means judging, judging means two-three months of a contest and proper testing, which also means delays in say starting a major contest and updating 72hr maps.

EDIT: Although, you could do something a little simpler/less important, and have like, I don't know, site badges given out during the Exhibition game. Less serious, more jokey.
 
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Joshenkstone

L5: Dapper Member
Oct 24, 2015
208
184
it looks like valve pretty likes this community. maybe they could add some badges like with competitive badges for the contributers of the jam.
 

Viemärirotta

sniffer
aa
Feb 5, 2016
1,013
590
it looks like valve pretty likes this community. maybe they could add some badges like with competitive badges for the contributers of the jam.

That sounds cool. However people might get sad for not receiving one due to perhaps suddenly not being able to participate in the jam due to irl issues for example.
 

Oatmeal

L2: Junior Member
May 17, 2014
71
40
AFAIK the jam is not even a competition, is it?
It used to be a competition, but people got annoyed of having to judge the many entries.

I still think it was a very attractive type of competition, especially to new people.
 

nickybakes

You should've played Rumbleverse
aa
Jul 28, 2015
911
1,739
Last year's contest was held at the end of July/beginning of August, which fit perfectly with my schedule. I got tooth surgery the day before the contest started, which left me unable to do a lot of things, so mapping the whole weekend was fun. I'm pretty sure this is s no brainier, but hopefully this year's jam is on a weekend.
 

Joshenkstone

L5: Dapper Member
Oct 24, 2015
208
184
That sounds cool. However people might get sad for not receiving one due to perhaps suddenly not being able to participate in the jam due to irl issues for example.
Last time you could do the jam earlier or later if you couldn't participate during the jam. :)
 

Bogdy

L4: Comfortable Member
Aug 13, 2014
187
208

Idolon

they/them
aa
Feb 7, 2008
2,105
6,106
It used to be a competition, but people got annoyed of having to judge the many entries.

I still think it was a very attractive type of competition, especially to new people.

-big post warning-

The last time we ran a 72 hour contest it took 4 weeks to get each map played twice, at a rate of 6 tests per week (2 per day, 3 days a week). These got in the way of running normal impromptus (nobody wanted to participate in the day's third test), and the generally low quality of the maps began to wear down on people. For this reason, I think a public vote on every single map is pretty much a bad idea no matter what.

It would probably be possible to have a small private judging group go through and disqualify maps that are pretty much guaranteed not to win, getting a smaller pool of maps to have tested by everyone. However, as you said, this competition is attractive to newer mappers, and this system would be pretty much designed to exclude them.

(That's not to say that newer mappers are incapable of producing good maps, but it's usually how things go.)

What we tried to do for the last jam to make up for the lack of prizes was to recognize any notable works from the jam in an announcement at the conclusion of the jam. Here's the one from last winter. This sort of system doesn't have the same tension and release that a typical judging period does. As an entrant, if you're looking for any sort of competitive element, all you'll be able to do is make something and hope that you get recognized in the end.

I'd be interested in seeing a system where private judges can create a list of "titles" that entrants can earn, like "Best looking" or "Most innovative." Judging would be a relatively quick ordeal (no public judging period), entrants have something to strive for (other than making something for the sake of making it), and entries could be officially recognized in a more formal manner.

It might be possible to include the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place prizes in this system, but for the reasons mentioned before, I don't recommend it. It's just not realistic to test every map equally, and the titles system isn't as effective if there's a "main" prize.


tl;dr: Having official recognition other than 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc. and having it judged privately would allow us to include a competitive element in the Jam without the sorts of problems that our old public voting judgment system did.
 
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RodionJenga

L5: Dapper Member
Oct 24, 2015
236
256
I'd be interested in seeing a system where private judges can create a list of "titles" that entrants can earn, like "Best looking" or "Most innovative."

I'm in favor of the "paper plate award" style. Not a title for everyone, but maybe 20 or so across maps, textures, models, detail scenes, art, etc
 

LeSwordfish

semi-trained quasi-professional
aa
Aug 8, 2010
4,102
6,597
RE: Prizes: Jethro and Idolon have said very smart things about why we're not doing prizes. I rather like the idea of the Paper Plate Award style, though it needs further consideration.

Last time you could do the jam earlier or later if you couldn't participate during the jam. :)

One thing to note: "afterwards" is very difficult to do because we want to move straight on to the aftermath and celebration and things, so you might miss out on that.

Wouldn't that cut a bit of the creative freedom?

It could be an optional theme. The counter to this of course is that it could help inspire people - a theme like "midsummer murders", say, is evocative and inspiring while not explicitly saying what people should do.
 

TyeZenneth

L6: Sharp Member
May 31, 2014
340
293
RE: Prizes: Jethro and Idolon have said very smart things about why we're not doing prizes. I rather like the idea of the Paper Plate Award style, though it needs further consideration.



One thing to note: "afterwards" is very difficult to do because we want to move straight on to the aftermath and celebration and things, so you might miss out on that.



It could be an optional theme. The counter to this of course is that it could help inspire people - a theme like "midsummer murders", say, is evocative and inspiring while not explicitly saying what people should do.
But having themes basically requires mappers to have certain things in their maps- in this case, a theremin.
 

Nighttime71

L2: Junior Member
Jan 11, 2016
86
40
This time I won't be stupid enough to not submit my map in the submission thread. However, on the third day, the servers felt really underpopulated and people went all demoknight on my map. I'm looking for to this next one because a few people here such as myself will have vacation meaning that there may be more people this time???
 

Oatmeal

L2: Junior Member
May 17, 2014
71
40
-big post warning-

The last time we ran a 72 hour contest it took 4 weeks to get each map played twice, at a rate of 6 tests per week (2 per day, 3 days a week). These got in the way of running normal impromptus (nobody wanted to participate in the day's third test), and the generally low quality of the maps began to wear down on people. For this reason, I think a public vote on every single map is pretty much a bad idea no matter what.

It would probably be possible to have a small private judging group go through and disqualify maps that are pretty much guaranteed not to win, getting a smaller pool of maps to have tested by everyone. However, as you said, this competition is attractive to newer mappers, and this system would be pretty much designed to exclude them.

(That's not to say that newer mappers are incapable of producing good maps, but it's usually how things go.)

What we tried to do for the last jam to make up for the lack of prizes was to recognize any notable works from the jam in an announcement at the conclusion of the jam. Here's the one from last winter. This sort of system doesn't have the same tension and release that a typical judging period does. As an entrant, if you're looking for any sort of competitive element, all you'll be able to do is make something and hope that you get recognized in the end.

I'd be interested in seeing a system where private judges can create a list of "titles" that entrants can earn, like "Best looking" or "Most innovative." Judging would be a relatively quick ordeal (no public judging period), entrants have something to strive for (other than making something for the sake of making it), and entries could be officially recognized in a more formal manner.

It might be possible to include the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place prizes in this system, but for the reasons mentioned before, I don't recommend it. It's just not realistic to test every map equally, and the titles system isn't as effective if there's a "main" prize.


tl;dr: Having official recognition other than 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc. and having it judged privately would allow us to include a competitive element in the Jam without the sorts of problems that our old public voting judgment system did.

Yeah, going through the map pool and only selecting maps over a certain quality level for the judging period would help with the mass of map submissions.

There could also be some sort of participation medal/prize for new mappers who have made a fully functioning map (proper lighting, no leaks, no clipping brushes everywhere, logic works, etc.) even though it might not be good enough to win anything.

Categories like "Best Looking" and "Best Gameplay" sound neat too. They could be decided by a committee of 3 people who are experts in that field (more than three people never come to an agreement).

The category "Best Overall" should be a public vote. With 1st, 2nd and 3rd place and all.
 
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SierraStorms

L1: Registered
Oct 23, 2015
46
198
I prefer June-July, since I maybe traveling in August-September. What I liked about the 2016 Winter Jam is the showcase of the staff's top favorites. And would like to see it in the summer one as well. I'm not too fond about giving participation awards to everyone.