72hr Contest Improvements

A Boojum Snark

Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado
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Nov 2, 2007
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I've really been out of the loop, and while I hate posting without reading everything this thread is way too long now...
But, why are we taking this contest so seriously as to have feedback and "judging"? If a map is worked on after the contest that's the time for getting into it. Shouldn't a 72h map contest be the same as our old 48/72h minicontests? I mean.... That's even what these started as.

Just have simple voting (make it a plugin too) and that sounds like it would help a lot. Sure there are a lot of maps still, but every player does not need to play every map.

Nobody should be entering one of these hoping for amazing feedback.
 

UKCS-Alias

Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?
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Sep 8, 2008
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But, why are we taking this contest so seriously as to have feedback and "judging"?
Because many mappers still want to take a shot at obtaining a mappers medalion. It should remain fair for those. And they also dont want to have the less skilled ones instantly dropped out without feedback.

A good judging process which also can provide good feedback is the target on this.
 

YM

LVL100 YM
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Dec 5, 2007
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Because many mappers still want to take a shot at obtaining a mappers medalion. It should remain fair for those. And they also dont want to have the less skilled ones instantly dropped out without feedback.

A good judging process which also can provide good feedback is the target on this.
Any judging system will end up focusing on the better ones rapidly. No matter what happens.
The fairest way to do it is to have scheduled testing, each mall gets run twice and then stop. Everyone gets two demo files and the !fb comments that go with it.

The medallion shouldn't be an excuse for keeping a broken contest as a contest.
 

Idolon

they/them
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Feb 7, 2008
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@ido I played every single map on our servers with at least 12 people on. Your claim that there were unplayed maps isn't entirely accurate. It would be more fair to say the good maps were circlejerked to getting more playtime. If the server configuration is good, we can avoid that entirely!

I really think the current system could be compressed. 3 days a week isn't enough, it's taking too long. Can you shuffle up the schedule a bit so we're doing 4 per week? I think we could manage 5 tbh

I could've worded that better. There were maps that didn't get any playtime until that system was added. Sorry for the confusion!

I left the gaps in the schedule so that non-72 hour tests could happen. We're currently scheduled to run the first phase tests for another three weeks; I'll try to shave it down to two.
 

A Boojum Snark

Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado
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Nov 2, 2007
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Because many mappers still want to take a shot at obtaining a mappers medalion. It should remain fair for those. And they also dont want to have the less skilled ones instantly dropped out without feedback.

A good judging process which also can provide good feedback is the target on this.

hmmm... I think I'm going to have to just be terse and rude. screw 'em. I didn't even know we were giving those out for these mini contests, honestly, but minis are about having fun, not winning. That's what they were years back when they were mostly held "unofficially" by members and not staff. It was ok for them to become a little more of a real contest, but now they are growing too large for it to be fun and fair/competitive. My opinion is drop all formalized competition and rewards and go back to a fun challenge event with a simple poll method of rankings.
 

Vincent

&#128296 Grandmaster Lizard Wizard Jedi &#128296
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Sep 5, 2009
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hmmm... I think I'm going to have to just be terse and rude. screw 'em. I didn't even know we were giving those out for these mini contests, honestly, but minis are about having fun, not winning. That's what they were years back when they were mostly held "unofficially" by members and not staff. It was ok for them to become a little more of a real contest, but now they are growing too large for it to be fun and fair/competitive. My opinion is drop all formalized competition and rewards and go back to a fun challenge event with a simple poll method of rankings.

If this were to happen the most recent 72hr contest is essentially over.

Our biggest problems are thus; With the contest having prizes we've cut off people from working on their maps after the rush. With the number of maps submitted this cut off judging process is months. People lose interest over a months span and people get burned out playing rushed maps. Speeding this up isn't exactly feasible unless we had a dedicated group of judges.

I'm largely indifferent about the prizes, all I was aiming for was a medallion, but I'd still be sad to see it all go. It would be right to assume we had entrees with the express hope they'd place 3rd - 1st. I'm positive it bloated our submitted maps.

That aside, I would like to see how many entrees we would get now, with no incentive, just a pat on the back. We were growing before and we're still growing now, especially with Crash climbing on youtube. I wouldn't call the 72hr a mini-contest anymore. It's grown beyond 'miniature' in sheer submission volume alone and I would wager removing prizes won't lower it dramatically, though I could always be wrong about that.

Perhaps dropping prizes is for the best. If we can't find a better alternative. Practically any form of prize winning will have to be accompanied by judging, so it's up to the staff or a certain dedicated individual to see it all setup smoothly.

I'd leave it up to Idolon to decide what to do at this point, seeing as he's running the current contest.

EDIT: I forgot to mention feedback. Reading Booj's post had me realize that if someone truly wants feedback they should just make a thread, get it into a game day, and wait. There are always people floating around the forums looking to help people.

Perhaps expecting good detailed feedback on every submission isn't truly feasible with the number of entrees.
 
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RaVaGe

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Jun 23, 2010
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The 72hr Contest : We make maps in 72 hours, we are judging them for 3 months.
 
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A Boojum Snark

Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado
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Ravage actually kinda distilled the entire issue down to one sentence. Our super short speed contests result in a longer results period than our multi-month massive undertaking contests. This is wrong. Say whatever you like about whatever aspects of the issue, but that is the core problem that needs to change... drastically.
 

Sergis

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Jul 22, 2009
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just put all the maps in a double elimination tournament, taking votes after a single test of two maps to see who wins, 2-3 "matches" a test

quick and dirty rankings for a quick and dirty contest lol

and the worst maps would be out of the voting quickly so the authors could work on them and test in peace

single elimination would be even simpler but too quick to get rid of maps imo although with a ton of maps it might be the better option
 
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