PL Timbermill rc3c

This map, in my opinion, is the number 1 best payload map that hasn't been added to the game yet. (sorry, if I did include the payload maps in the game, you would be number 3. Right next to badwater and upward)

For some reason I'm unable to load RC3. I can load other maps, but RC3 makes tf2 hang whenever I try to load it. You may with to gather some data on if it's happening to others too, just be aware.

Can you upload it as RC3b or s.th. like that?

I think, some Players on our Server played the yesterday uploaded rc3 Version.

howdy infectedfury,

first off, wonderful map! just downloaded the RC3b build this weekend, and am enjoying the payload layout.

I'm not a map builder yet, but I do run a local lan dedicated server and build tf2 bot navigation meshes. I've found a couple of spots that I have questions about. pardon my lack of knowledge on "map speak", section, part, phase, idk what the proper term is. :blushing:

in map section one, inside this building...



a stair landing went missing between rc2 and rc3. this might intentional, let me know, and I'll adjust my nav file.



and in the same building, the nav mesh seems to think there should be an ammo/health kit where there isn't one.




I cannot tag the nav mesh, using any method I know, to update this ammo/health spot, and bots just dance on this spot until they get blown up. hmy:

thanks for your time and efforts with this map.

I've found a few things that may or may not need any attention, as I'm not certain if intentional. apologies for the multiple pics and the lack of mapping speak. [edited] guess I should add that I've not found anything that would hinder normal play mode, although I'm an average TF2 gamer and haven't tried much rocket/sticky jumping around this map.

1) should I be able to see through the window edge? and I wasn't aware this window was one you could pass through, found out trying to escape a pyro the other evening, air blasted out the window.



2) inside this building in section 1,


there is a ledge of some kind in this corner, that allows me to jump from dispenser to "ledge" to the shelf above. not that this is tragic by any means, but I can place a teleporter on the stack of lumber. entertaining to watch the unsuspecting, but could this be used to garner an advantage? your thoughts?



3) does this stair section need to "painted" differently? same building as above.


we are still playing this map on our home dedicated server, will let you know if more visual or fun engi locations are found. keep up the good work!

found some spare time today and have been doing some sticky jumping. it helps to have the flu and not be able to worry with silly things like work. :laugh: also had some friends help find a few of these lofty landing spots for demos and soldiers.

will spare everyone the direct images and just provide some links. let me know if the images are not clear on location, I can provide more details.

first off, some of these I would have never discovered without the help of a reference video found on this forum. more specifically the r_drawclipbrushes and vcollide_wireframe commands when running the map from the steam client. neat stuff to say the least.

SECTION 1

at BLU spawn
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just after point 2
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just prior to last point, although far enough away from the point that it might not matter
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SECTION 2

at point 2
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after point 2
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in the courtyard of the last point
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and should the point where the cart drops be capped with something? I fell in thinking it was covered by magic. it's ok to suggest I learn to pay attention, I get that a lot.
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SECTION 3

at point 2
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some around the last point, although might come into play due to the clipping that is already in place.
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I hope this helps, as I've really enjoyed this map, and think it has some good long term potential. keep up the great work.

Just as a general rule of thumb, it's not a good idea to release a version of your map with the suffix "final". It leads to a bit of a situation when somebody finds an issue with your map, or you want to go back to it for whatever reason.

pl_timbermill_rc3c Showcase Stuff:

stage 1, A:
- Powerful far-away sightline for snipers that leads to main exit routes of blue base. This sort of sightline would be fine for a side route, annoying for main route.
- Powerful straight sightline for snipers in side route also - through door up stairs.
- A lot of one-way doors, closed doors, hard to find your way around at first.

stage 1, B:
- Choke immedietly after A was dangerous because while sideroutes exist that go past it, the side routes were not obvious enough. The one to the right of this choke (from blue perspective) is hidden in the building leading in a different direction. This type of choke also seemed a bit too dangerous for the 2nd point of the map.
- Side route in question had a room to its right that felt odd, dead end with doors that show second stage, not sure if important at first glance, confusing.
- High ground around capture point may be too powerful for defenders, but if blue used the side routes more it might be okay. As it stands it was a battle of attrition that wasn't fun for the attackers.

stage 2, A:
- Exiting out top exit as blue was annoying since you ended up having to go back downstairs anyway to leave base.
- First building cart passes through was not fun to combat people in. Area was dark and hard to see players. Hard to see entrances leading into the area because nothing in particular catches your eye. Blues were able to get in all over the red team through all the different entrances.
- Detailing in this building on the side, through chicken wire felt like it wasn't 100% not a combat area. If the base of the chicken wire fence had a foot-high border it would feel less distracting. Use of props were creative though.

stage 2, B:
- First section leading away from A point felt good to attack, details looked good also. Defenders should maybe be given more time. Perhaps use barnblitz's instant defender respawn mechanic when a point is capped using a game_forcerespawn.
- Defending this point was difficult for the same powerful sightline reason as exiting blue spawn in the first area of the map where there is a deadly sightline over main exits of the base. Either sniper is all the way back in this direction near the cliff, where he is out of the gameplay space that you'd concern yourself with, or he is standing closer in the dark tunnel where you can't see him anyway. Light up the tunnel and the room above it more.
- Box route leading up the left side (from red perspective) could use more boxes so other classes can use route apart from just scouts, could be cool.
- Ability for blue team to take a lot of high ground behind red team was very annoying for defenders - they would have to fight from two directions and would lose often. This may have been an error; there is a gate door in the upper floor near red's base that seems like it was supposed to be a one-way gate for red team since red spawns very close, but the gate can be opened from both sides. Blue team is able to push from their upper-floor one-way gate door of their own above the tunnel when red isn't paying attention and can push all the way back through this second gate door and take control of red easily.
- Leading red to the highground areas could be better.
- The capture point pit is open before the cart gets there - open to a deathpit. This isn't particularly useful for anything beyond killing people who aren't paying attention. Funny, but also annoying - should be sealed until cart gets very close, or just in the finale animation entirely.

stage 3, A:
- The low ceiling of the area give mobile classes a difficult time.
- There wasn't many routes for attackers to try to flank sentry positions. The sentry positions felt good for defenders, but attackers need more opportunity to exit their base.
- Finding ammo for non-engineer defenders was difficult, since the large ammo was taken by engineers often, and the small ammopack on the bridge is hidden behind some barrels.
- Walk times for defenders were too short: 8 seconds for defenders, 8 seconds for attackers. Maybe increase defender spawn times a bit if you don't want to redesign the area too much.

stage 3, B:
- This point didn't get played much at all, after blue took A they just rolled through here. This could be a manner of us just having to play more rounds on the map however.

stage 3, C:
- The cart seemed to roll in too quickly before red could get set up adequately so gameplay here didn't last long. It feels like blue has a lot of options for attacking - generally this is the other way around (good ways for defense).
- We didn't use the underground area much. For defenders there is a section in the bottom area where it just leads to a dropdown from the blue section, but for red players you don't notice this so it's just a dead end if you go through it all. A one-way gate here may be okay here, but better signage may be fine just.
- You can't stick stickies on the last section of ground. You can do what I did with my discovery map and just coat this surface in invisible prop_dynamic garage doors so that you can stick stickies on the prop_dynamics - and then just disable them when you blow up the ground at the end.

Conclusion:
The map shows prowess in hammer; you use a lot of techniques and detail ideas throughout the stages. However there were inconsistencies in clipping and detailing throughout the map, some spots looked good, but there was a general feeling of not-good quality in the rest of the areas. It seems you may have made the jump to the polishing/detailing stage a bit too quickly before buffing out the weird gameplay of some areas. It can be improved. We aren't going to add this to the showcase section yet but the map may be ready if you can fix the gameplay and detail oddities in each stage.

Feedback from the server.