What makes a map good ?

The Siphon

L6: Sharp Member
Mar 2, 2015
278
190
Hello ! I have been trying to think a answer to my problem. What makes a map good, how to make it balanced, what it should be like.

I can't find a solution to these questions. when I try to Google these things all I get is something like "how to make a map" or "how to make a skybox".

I really need to know what I should do to make my first map balanced and over all good.

I would love if you leave your tips or links down below !

Thank You !

:)
 

Kraken

Few more zeros and ones for the site to proccess
Dec 21, 2014
430
121
For what gamemode are you making this map?
It's hard to tell what makes a good map if you don't tell the gamemode.
 

Waffe

L5: Dapper Member
Dec 2, 2012
230
203
A simple question with a simple answer: Make it fun. If people like playing on your map it's good.

I know you're a beginner mapper, so I'll tell you this right from the get-go. At first, your map is most likely to be bad. Then after testing and knowing your map is bad, you look to the maps faults. Why is it bad? Then you can try to fix those faults in ways that doesn't destroy the map even more. This is basically how mapping works.

One important thing to keep in mind when mapping in TF2 is that the game revolves around several different classes. Knowing how each class plays out is key to understanding how to balance a map. If you think one class is super boring to play on this map (apart from the medic) you have figure out why and try to fix that. The most important classes to take into account when balancing are the engineer and the sniper. Make sure no spot is too powerful for a sentry and that no sightline is too good for a sniper. A lot of open and flat ground benefits the sniper hugely.

Another hint I could give you is that getting your scale right as soon as possible makes the map much more fun and also much easier to build upon later. Make sure your areas aren't huge or microscopically tiny. Run around your maps as both a heavy and a scout. If you feel like some areas take super long to walk across as heavy, that means your area IS super long and might need a fix. Same deal when running around as scout. If you bump along every single wall in a tiny indoors section, make it a bit wider to give players room to fight in.

Last thing I'll mention is signage. You might know your map inside and out, but NO OTHER player will. Place some signs to make navigation easier. And then place some more signs because players are most usually idiots.
 
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The Siphon

L6: Sharp Member
Mar 2, 2015
278
190
A simple question with a simple answer: Make it fun. If people like playing on your map it's good.

I know you're a beginner mapper, so I'll tell you this right from the get-go. At first, your map is most likely to be bad. Then after testing and knowing your map is bad, you look to the maps faults. Why is it bad? Then you can try to fix those faults in ways that doesn't destroy the map even more. This is basically how mapping works.

One important thing to keep in mind when mapping in TF2 is that the game revolves around several different classes. Knowing how each class plays out is key to understanding how to balance a map. If you think one class is super boring to play on this map (apart from the medic) you have figure out why and try to fix that. The most important classes to take into account when balancing are the engineer and the sniper. Make sure no spot is too powerful for a sentry and that no sightline is too good for a sniper. A lot of open and flat ground benefits the sniper hugely.

Another hint I could give you is that getting your scale right as soon as possible makes the map much more fun and also much easier to build upon later. Make sure your areas aren't huge or microscopically tiny. Run around your maps as both a heavy and a scout. If you feel like some areas take super long to walk across as heavy, that means your area IS super long and might need a fix. Same deal when running around as scout. If you bump along every single wall in a tiny indoors section, make it a bit wider to give players room to fight in.

Last thing I'll mention is signage. You might know your map inside and out, but NO OTHER player will. Place some signs to make navigation easier. And then place some more signs because players are most usually idiots.

That was really useful, thank you a lot !
 

Kraken

Few more zeros and ones for the site to proccess
Dec 21, 2014
430
121
Make it obvious where you can and can't go.
And playerclip anything where players can get stuck.
Also watch ueak crash's tutorial on clipping it'll help you.
 

Doktor Richter

L3: Member
Feb 13, 2014
115
89
You can get a good foundation for your map if you follow the "Rule of Threes". What this means is, at any time, players should have three unique paths to get to the objective (or wherever they are going). Usually you want all these ways to be different somehow. For example, you can make it so one path is the main path and the quickest and widest, one path allows you to attack the enemy from the side but is a little longer, and one path gives you a height advantage but puts you in a dangerous position.

Generally, if you have less than three paths, it can be hard to push through the enemy defenses, and if you have many more than three, the area will be really hard to hold and defend. Players may also get lost with many paths leading everywhere.

You don't always have to follow this rule, and there are a few maps that break it a bit. The most important thing is that your map is fun. But most good maps follow the Rule of Threes in many places. If you don't know how to make your layout fun and balanced, the Rule of Threes can be a good place to start.
 

wareya

L420: High Member
Jun 17, 2012
493
191
What makes a map good: Wishwashy subjective personal pseudo-formulaic bullshit.
 

Crash

func_nerd
aa
Mar 1, 2010
3,315
5,499
Yeah, "good" is VERY subjective. Everyone has their own favorite maps and different things they like about each. Personally, I make maps I'll find fun to play on myself. That's served me decently so far.
 
Oct 6, 2008
1,947
445
Make it obvious where you can and can't go.
QUOTE]

I personally love the where you can't go when it's a death pit and you put someone else into it :thumbup:
 

iiboharz

eternally tired
aa
Nov 5, 2014
857
1,291
Yeah, "good" is VERY subjective. Everyone has their own favorite maps and different things they like about each. Personally, I make maps I'll find fun to play on myself. That's served me decently so far.

I follow the same criteria here pretty much. If one team finds a way to constantly decimate the other team (and it's not because of skill imbalance) then your map likely has issues.
 

Muddy

Muddy
aa
Sep 5, 2014
2,574
4,592
You can get a good foundation for your map if you follow the "Rule of Threes". What this means is, at any time, players should have three unique paths to get to the objective (or wherever they are going). Usually you want all these ways to be different somehow. For example, you can make it so one path is the main path and the quickest and widest, one path allows you to attack the enemy from the side but is a little longer, and one path gives you a height advantage but puts you in a dangerous position.

Generally, if you have less than three paths, it can be hard to push through the enemy defenses, and if you have many more than three, the area will be really hard to hold and defend. Players may also get lost with many paths leading everywhere.

You don't always have to follow this rule, and there are a few maps that break it a bit. The most important thing is that your map is fun. But most good maps follow the Rule of Threes in many places. If you don't know how to make your layout fun and balanced, the Rule of Threes can be a good place to start.
I used the "rule of threes" in cp_matthew and some people complained that there were too many routes. :v

Attack/Defend is more linear than KotH though, so maybe it depends on the gamemode.
 
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HQDefault

...what
aa
Aug 6, 2014
1,056
535
At first I thought this was gonna be highly philosophical,

so I was prepared to say that asking that is like asking the meaning of life. (Which I know, but it's a secret and I ain't sharing it :3)

But in this case... yeah...

I'm... kinda...
 

ExtraCheesyPie

L420: High Member
Jan 29, 2015
484
151
Make it obvious where you can and can't go.

I personally love the where you can't go when it's a death pit and you put someone else into it :thumbup:

Also, don't overuse death pits. In some cases, it's appropriate, but not every map needs to be on a cliffside or contain a side way of doom or something.

A good way to do death pits is mountainlab's last, or coldfront's connector from pt 1 to pt 2, which has a massive cave/pit thing blocked off by girders.
 
Dec 28, 2014
330
307
Of course the most important thing that makes a map good is that it's fun to play on. If I have fun playing on a map that's really the most important thing. Of course making a map fun can be difficult, and what's fun for one person may be different for the next person.

Looking at my favorite Valve made maps, Badwater, Upward and Gorge they all have a good mix of wide open spaces with enough chokepoints to allow the defending team to have a chance of holding back the attacking team.