PL Cactus Canyon

Harribo

aa
Nov 1, 2009
871
851
So, i'm posting a thread up for each new Valve map, please leave feedback here.

Valve, if your looking at this please check out http://feedback.tf2maps.net/map/pl_cactuscanyon/ for feedback left by people when on our servers, you can download a .vmf with all the feedback including the locations of where people were standing looking at when placing the feedback. Paste special them over the map's .vmf or something.
 
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obsidiian

L1: Registered
Jul 6, 2013
40
5
When I played it the attacking team steamrolled every time. I quit after a few rounds though because if was no fun. I like the water and the vertical changes.
 

Svedash

L1: Registered
Jun 11, 2014
30
14
Cactus_Canyon_%28pinball%29.jpg
 

Penguin

Clinically Diagnosed with Small Mapper's Syndrome
aa
May 21, 2009
2,039
1,484
as far as i can tell, there isn't a single cactus in this entire map

3/10
 

Pocket

Half a Lambert is better than one.
aa
Nov 14, 2009
4,694
2,579
I don't like the idea of a two-stage map. One is self-contained, three is a set, two is what I'd call unfinished. When there are only two stages, you're basically just alternating back and forth, so there's no sense of progression from a beginning to an end. There are just two stages and one of them is arbitrarily the win condition and the other isn't.

And as others have said, I thought Valve had gotten over the idea of multi-stage maps altogether back when they made Badwater Basin and Gorge. I wonder if this is yet another case of one of their designers learning something about design and then not informing the others because of poor internal communication.
 
Apr 14, 2013
663
343
I really feel like this map can be the next great payload map. it has some great sentry spots, height variation, flanks, chokes, etc. Unfortunately, it's really far from balanced. Every round, either BLU tried attacking for ~15 minutes, and failed (happened less), or BLU steamrolled (happened most of the time).
I hope a third stage will be added, it really feels wierd with 2 stages like Steve the Pocket said.
Many of the spawns feel too long, it takes years to go through them
One thing that drove me crazy is the fenced storage room in the flank in first stage 2nd point, to the left (looking from red side), the one with the thoundermountain look. The fence is one big block, so when you look through it there's no fence on the other side. I know it's just detail, but every time I went through thjere I saw it, until I stopped walking through that flank.
 
Oct 6, 2008
1,947
445
I played it and didn't like it - no alternate routes around some choke points.

I play with a group that doesn't do anything else but payload and they're pretty good at it.

Blue never had a chance and red defended way to easily and kept pushing blue back to their spawn with multiple staged ubers by the red team.

I really feel like this was valve saying, "We haven't done anything for TF2 in a while, so let's throw out a beta that we'll never use and hype it up a lot."
 

Trotim

aa
Jul 14, 2009
1,195
1,045
At the start of stage 1 you can build Sentries below the map. Makes it impossible for BLU to do anything

The start of stage 2 has a flank to the right I don't think anyone needed or used, but then a narrow Goldrush-like doorway with 0 other routes that kept getting locked down by spam every time
 
Mar 23, 2010
1,872
1,696
it seems kind of bad that they recycled goldrush choke and tMountain spawns....running out of ideas? obviously, the map plays a lot different from either but still.

When I played it the attacking team steamrolled every time. I quit after a few rounds though because if was no fun. I like the water and the vertical changes.

this is a really big problem with valve servers. people have teamstacked with 3+ meds and a couple heavy classes everytime ive played it. in a fucking BETA test server.
 
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The Ogrelord

L1: Registered
Jul 9, 2014
1
0
Map differs from server?

I tried to play the maps today and were working fine a few hours ago, and when I tried to join it says maps/pl_cactuscanyon.bsp differs from the server's? My anti-virus was asking to remove some files and just said yes to all, anyone know how to fix it?
 
Mar 23, 2010
1,872
1,696
this map is starting to look like "what if, after the choke, instead of a yard/flanking area, we added another choke!!!" it feels like they condensed all 3 stages of dustbowl into each stage :O
 

evanonline

L420: High Member
Mar 15, 2009
485
273
I don't like the idea of a two-stage map. One is self-contained, three is a set, two is what I'd call unfinished. When there are only two stages, you're basically just alternating back and forth, so there's no sense of progression from a beginning to an end. There are just two stages and one of them is arbitrarily the win condition and the other isn't.

I agree with this, the stage just feels weird and unfinished just in overall terms of progression, it doesn't feel satisfying to win on Cactus Valley.

And as others have said, I thought Valve had gotten over the idea of multi-stage maps altogether back when they made Badwater Basin and Gorge. I wonder if this is yet another case of one of their designers learning something about design and then not informing the others because of poor internal communication.

This I don't agree with though, because I think multi-stage maps can be fun (Thunder Mountain is multi-stage and came after both of those!) It just doesn't feel like the map is far along, especially compared to Asteroid.

I really like the vertical orientation of the map and there's some cool elements to it, but the stage feels huge, especially for a multi-stage map. Moving up on offense feels like a huge slog for BLU on both stages, it takes FOREVER to reach the action once you've pushed the cart to the first point. There are interesting elements to the map but it's kind of hard to discern them, honestly, because the overall gameplay feels really boring at this stage.
 

Geit

💜 I probably broke it 💜
aa
May 28, 2009
598
1,161
Time for more heatmaps:

Killer Heatmap:
infz.jpg


Victim Heatmap:
oka2.jpg


Victim Locations:
2202.jpg
 
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RaVaGe

aa
Jun 23, 2010
733
1,210
2014-07-11_00001.jpg


Not enough spawn doors, make one on the left to balance the thing.

2014-07-11_00002.jpg


At this stage, the area is too wide imo, cut it.

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This place is op if a red engie build in the building, make a door wich open only when the first cp is cap, or at least when the cart is near the cp.

2014-07-11_00004.jpg


Make some more buildings in this area, the gameplay isn't really fun imo.

2014-07-11_00005.jpg


Same issue with this area, it's way too wide, the sentry nest on the roof is also op.

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This part is kinda useless imo, it way too chokey and not really interesting.

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Another view.

2014-07-11_00008.jpg


This side is completly useless, ditch it.

2014-07-11_00009.jpg


Sentry nest.

2014-07-11_00010.jpg


Sentry nest 2.

2014-07-11_00011.jpg


It was kinda hard for the BLU to push, maybe add a doorway there.



Overall the map is fun but the pacing isn't good enough, create some propper sentry nest, especially near the control points. The map lacks of health imo, add some more.
 

Pocket

Half a Lambert is better than one.
aa
Nov 14, 2009
4,694
2,579
Hang on, there's a massive gap between the two stages?

OK, I'm gonna hold out hope that they're planning to stick a middle stage in between them, then.

This I don't agree with though, because I think multi-stage maps can be fun (Thunder Mountain is multi-stage and came after both of those!)
I don't care for Thunder Mountain either, to be honest. It just feels like I'm playing three different maps with the same theme. Especially since there's no sense of direct progression between the stages like there is in Gold Rush, where you can see into the next/previous stage from where they meet (same problem I have with Pipeline).
 
Mar 23, 2010
1,872
1,696
that water silo area is hella important in stage 2. you get through that choke, you better have more than the dropdown + payload route. they could probably make that choke a lot better instead because its really really bad, worse than goldrush identical one imo. but that seems to the theme of the map: 1 really bad choke per stage.