5cp layout help

octob0t said:

This has been bugging me for a few days now, but every time i begin to draw up a layout for a 5cp map, it always ends up turning into what looks like a badlands or granary clone. the 8 layout and | layout are what seem to work best, so i begin drawing something around those, and they turn into a clone. Am i just doing something wrong, here?

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You're not doing anything wrong, it's simply one of the limitations of 5cp. Take a closer look at Gullywash and Process and even Snakewater - you'll begin to notice the similarities they have to Badlands and Granary, and also the differences. Just because it feels the same right now doesn't mean it can't be different later.

octob0t said:

This has been bugging me for a few days now, but every time i begin to draw up a layout for a 5cp map, it always ends up turning into what looks like a badlands or granary clone. the 8 layout and | layout are what seem to work best, so i begin drawing something around those, and they turn into a clone. Am i just doing something wrong, here?

Click to expand...

I wouldn't judge a map by it's overhead shape. People don't call maps clones for the silhouette when you're in noclip. Granary and badlands are also considered "good maps" so following in their line while not copying their layout is a pretty good idea to me. These lengths are proven to work already so noone would blame you.

Glassworks takes a lot of influence from Badlands and Gullywash, but it feels very different. The trick is to take influence but still do your own thing with it. Give players a new experience while using proven elements.

Though my map isn't 5CP.

It's a heavy inspiration off of Well's Mid-Area mixed with the open area of Double Cross, and will feature an artstyle close to that of Viaduct. You're not doing anything wrong, you just need to do what you feel looks cool, and works.

Holistically speaking, given that there are 11 5cp maps out currently and each mapper picks 3 areas to form into points, you could make 154 new original maps by just lifting map design from those. Sure, some would be a bit crap - say if it was made out of 3 last designs - but you could counter that by including some locations from other non capture point maps, like koth or payload.

But even if you cloned 3 areas from preexisting maps and re-textured with some minimal connectors from each area to the next, by the nebulous nature of game design and direction of player flow, actual playtime within each arena will vary a lot from the original. Think how a single point in Hydro changes as the front does.

Conclusion? Donworryboutit.

http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=17810

This article on 5CP by grazr is really helpful if you haven't seen it all ready. He explains a lot of stuff about why "good" 5CP maps often are very similar to Granary/Badlands and important apsects of designing 5CP maps wether or not you have competitive focus in mind or not.