Infiltration

CTF Infiltration b15

Download
Overview Reviews (1) History Discussion
Fruity Snacks

Fruity Snacks

Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums
aa
Sep 5, 2010
6,394
5,571
I still think that this map has potential, but it's still one-sided in the gameplay (I'm not 100% sure on that, I'll have to play b8, but I did just run through it and I don't think that the layout changes will help).

Something I thought of, that might be interesting, is that instead of just "Cap the flag and be done with it" maybe you turn the gamemode into something like the Counter Strike Team system of playing X amount of rounds as Terrorists then flipping to Counter-Terrorists. The team with the most victories, win.

In this case, teams would be playing as for X numbers of rounds. The rounds are the same as before, cap the flag and win if you're blue, defend if red. After X number of rounds, teams change color. Blue becomes red and red becomes blue. Repeat the first part. The team who can have the highest amount of caps and defenses combined, wins. (So, we'll say that Team A is blue for 5 rounds. They cap the flag 3 of those rounds. Now, Team B is blue and they cap it all 5 times. Team A didn't defend at all, and Team B got 2 defenses. Team A has a score of 3, Team B has a score of 7. Team B wins because they have more points).

I think with a bit of tweeking, this would be a huge improvement on the gametype, while maintaining your original vision and keeping the general layout as it is now. It also has the potential (maybe?) to be a very competitive type of gametype, which would appeal to a fair more amount of people.


Something to consider.

EDIT: and adding a like a 20-30s set up timer would help a lot. I know you said you were against that, but I really don't think it'll hurt.
 
DonutVikingChap

DonutVikingChap

L5: Dapper Member
Mar 15, 2013
233
139
Fr0Z3n said:
I still think that this map has potential, but it's still one-sided in the gameplay (I'm not 100% sure on that, I'll have to play b8, but I did just run through it and I don't think that the layout changes will help).

Something I thought of, that might be interesting, is that instead of just "Cap the flag and be done with it" maybe you turn the gamemode into something like the Counter Strike Team system of playing X amount of rounds as Terrorists then flipping to Counter-Terrorists. The team with the most victories, win.

In this case, teams would be playing as for X numbers of rounds. The rounds are the same as before, cap the flag and win if you're blue, defend if red. After X number of rounds, teams change color. Blue becomes red and red becomes blue. Repeat the first part. The team who can have the highest amount of caps and defenses combined, wins. (So, we'll say that Team A is blue for 5 rounds. They cap the flag 3 of those rounds. Now, Team B is blue and they cap it all 5 times. Team A didn't defend at all, and Team B got 2 defenses. Team A has a score of 3, Team B has a score of 7. Team B wins because they have more points).

I think with a bit of tweeking, this would be a huge improvement on the gametype, while maintaining your original vision and keeping the general layout as it is now. It also has the potential (maybe?) to be a very competitive type of gametype, which would appeal to a fair more amount of people.


Something to consider.

EDIT: and adding a like a 20-30s set up timer would help a lot. I know you said you were against that, but I really don't think it'll hurt.
Click to expand...

That seems like an interesting idea, I could make B9 a test version using that gamemode so we can see if it works or not.

About the setup time, I don't see how that could improve gameplay at all, please explain?
 
Fruity Snacks

Fruity Snacks

Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums
aa
Sep 5, 2010
6,394
5,571
Basically, it's to prevent quick rushes, allows red to get a tiny (and, by keeping it a short relatively small) foothold on the map and allow for defense. I think it'll help make red feel more secure when they are defending.

I think you've really designed aorund it already, so it might not be needed anymore. Perhaps making another test version with a 15-20s set up time (You really just want to make it long enough for engies to get 1 buildable down, and demo's to lay stickies)... just to see how it goes after a few tests, might not be a bad idea.
 
DonutVikingChap

DonutVikingChap

L5: Dapper Member
Mar 15, 2013
233
139
Fr0Z3n said:
Basically, it's to prevent quick rushes, allows red to get a tiny (and, by keeping it a short relatively small) foothold on the map and allow for defense. I think it'll help make red feel more secure when they are defending.

I think you've really designed aorund it already, so it might not be needed anymore. Perhaps making another test version with a 15-20s set up time (You really just want to make it long enough for engies to get 1 buildable down, and demo's to lay stickies)... just to see how it goes after a few tests, might not be a bad idea.
Click to expand...

I guess it could be a "test1" and a "test2" version, one with and one without a setup timer.

But where should the setup gate be, then? Should I just have the main gate be that?
 
Fruity Snacks

Fruity Snacks

Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums
aa
Sep 5, 2010
6,394
5,571
DonutVikingChap said:
But the little shed they have now is so easily spawncamped in that case...
Click to expand...

Oh. Forgot that. Either you could put gates at the top of the hill, at the start of each route down. Or just lock the main gate + side fence. I think either of those could work, would allow time for red to devise a stat and blue to also... Adding a bit to the conpetitiveness of the game system I suggested earlier.
 
Fruity Snacks

Fruity Snacks

Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums
aa
Sep 5, 2010
6,394
5,571
Okay, I'll do that optimization thing with you in person sometime later.

For now, just some minor things I caught while in the 5-6 minutes I was just playing.

Your exterior health packs in the front yard, thats a semi-high combat zone and people are going to be moving around alot. You don't want to have them in little nooks like the places I mentioned before. You want to have them in a place where the person can just keep moving and not have to worry about a lot of turns or being snagged on anything.

Starting off with this one: This is a fine place (As far as I can tell) for a med HP kit. Though, it's nestled in that corner there and if I'm doing some fighting, I'm now restricted in where I can go. I would suggest moving it to the left (in the picture) so now the freedom of movement is 180 deg, not 90.
ctf_infiltration_b80000.jpg


I would turn this one into a medium med kit. You don't want to short-change your spawn. The spawn is what should have the full HP restores, or places of very high risk. The reward you get is very high for an extremely low risk
ctf_infiltration_b80003.jpg


Same thing as with the other 2. This is a very limiting zone, that can have a high-risk when in a fight. I would either move this out completely and place it elsewhere or get rid of it. Conversely, a medium HP here (not full) would also be a fair trade. Reasons are a combination of the first and second set.
ctf_infiltration_b80001.jpg



A minor thing for later (don't worry about it now, just keep it in mind) ... Your interior Detailing is great, but the exterior (mainly the out-of-bound and skybox) areas could use a bit of work. right now it's just a map in a canyon. It looks kind of silly and there is not view to the outside world. Later on, when things are wrapping up, you might want to look into redoing some of the border details to include large skybox vistas, or even random roads. If you have hills like the one below, you could even try and create an light-glow from a nearby large city. Something to consider.
ctf_infiltration_b80001.jpg
 
DonutVikingChap

DonutVikingChap

L5: Dapper Member
Mar 15, 2013
233
139
Beta 10 is now finished!

I didn't bother uploading b9 because we playtested it and found that the new gameplay mechanics needed to be tweaked a bit.

What I have done is move the entire capture zone down to the wooden building on the hill, and instead of winning instantly when you bring the intel to it, the attackers now have to stand in it with the intel to capture a control point before they win!

I think this will be a great mechanic as it might solve a lot of the "one-sided gameplay" problems since RED now has a much better chance of catching up with the intel carrier and preventing instant defeat. But I have also doubled the intel reset time to make it easier for BLU to get it out from the intel room without doing 5 constant rushes.

In addition to this there is now also a 20 second setup time (25 if not counting the time lost from being frozen in spawn) which should give a tiny bit of time for RED and BLU to get together before they start fighting over the courtyard.


Basically, this should be a great update! Playtesting will tell.
 
Bakscratch

Bakscratch

Finisher of Maps
aa
Oct 29, 2010
714
1,493
Hey Donut :) Had so free time so I thought I try to find some spot on your map and I did :D

2013-09-28_00008.jpg

This is the 1st big one, you can use the rocks on the right then slide on the clipping to get into that small area, another angle
2013-09-28_00007.jpg


2013-09-28_00002.jpg
This one too, done by going behind the trees and a jump, another angle
2013-09-28_00003.jpg


I did find some others but these are the major ones :)

That was done on B10
 
DonutVikingChap

DonutVikingChap

L5: Dapper Member
Mar 15, 2013
233
139
Bakscratch said:
Hey Donut :) Had so free time so I thought I try to find some spot on your map and I did :D

2013-09-28_00008.jpg

This is the 1st big one, you can use the rocks on the right then slide on the clipping to get into that small area, another angle
2013-09-28_00007.jpg


2013-09-28_00002.jpg
This one too, done by going behind the trees and a jump, another angle
2013-09-28_00003.jpg


I did find some others but these are the major ones :)

That was done on B10
Click to expand...

Nice, but they don't seem that OP so I don't think I'll do anything about them for now. You have to be pretty creative to find them in the first place, too :)
 
goosmurf

goosmurf

L1: Registered
Sep 22, 2012
23
18
I've just added this to my servers in Australia and played it for the first time (5 rounds) last night.

Thought I'd share some initial thoughts, and if there particular gameplay items you'd like us to watch out for please let me know.

The short setup time works well to prevent Red going too crazy with sentry nests, though it still depends on Blu understanding that they have to push hard initially otherwise they face quite a battle.

Overall it feels like Blu breaking into Red is quite challenging. This feels "right". Once Blu has broken any Red sentries and starts to touch the Intel it feels like it's 50/50 whether they will eventually get out and cap. This also feels about "right".

However, once Blu gets the Intel onto the CP it seems impossible for Red to get it back.

One player suggested that if the Intel is dropped on the CP that it should reset immediately but that seems a bit too extreme. Maybe if the Intel is dropped on the CP should reset after 1 or 2 seconds?

OTOH I guess Red had plenty of chance to defend up to that point so maybe Blu shouldn't be penalised so hard if they drop it on the CP. :)

I am wary of suggesting changes since we've only played 5 rounds.

The overall reaction was very positive though. Chat logs:

The Hidden Blade: this... is weird
Ser Brick of Smurfland: good weird or bad weird?
The Hidden Blade: im not sure
defy: i think i like this map
Karmic Skink: Yeah it seems fun
flareSeven: I almost infiltrated it
Ser Brick of Smurfland: You really like saying the word infiltrate don't you
N3rax : Cool map
flareSeven: we need more cool maps like this
flareSeven: that was quite good
aglassop: That was fun!
defy: haha, fun game style
Ser Brick of Smurfland: something new
aglassop: This is a really fun map
ʎpoqou: yea this map is to much about steam rolling for my tast
Dabombber: it's pretty decent for the first half
Dabombber: second is average though
Dabombber: eng is useless second half
Click to expand...
 
DonutVikingChap

DonutVikingChap

L5: Dapper Member
Mar 15, 2013
233
139
goosmurf said:
I've just added this to my servers in Australia and played it for the first time (5 rounds) last night.

Thought I'd share some initial thoughts, and if there particular gameplay items you'd like us to watch out for please let me know.

The short setup time works well to prevent Red going too crazy with sentry nests, though it still depends on Blu understanding that they have to push hard initially otherwise they face quite a battle.

Overall it feels like Blu breaking into Red is quite challenging. This feels "right". Once Blu has broken any Red sentries and starts to touch the Intel it feels like it's 50/50 whether they will eventually get out and cap. This also feels about "right".

However, once Blu gets the Intel onto the CP it seems impossible for Red to get it back.

One player suggested that if the Intel is dropped on the CP that it should reset immediately but that seems a bit too extreme. Maybe if the Intel is dropped on the CP should reset after 1 or 2 seconds?

OTOH I guess Red had plenty of chance to defend up to that point so maybe Blu shouldn't be penalised so hard if they drop it on the CP. :)

I am wary of suggesting changes since we've only played 5 rounds.

The overall reaction was very positive though. Chat logs:
Click to expand...

Cool!

Yeah, I've been thinking about either increasing the cap time or reducing the intel reset time (or both) to make it a bit easier to get the intel back as RED, but I'm also not sure whether it's necessary or not yet.

What is the server(s) IP, by the way? I'd love to check it out sometime.
 
goosmurf

goosmurf

L1: Registered
Sep 22, 2012
23
18
DonutVikingChap said:
What is the server(s) IP, by the way? I'd love to check it out sometime.
Click to expand...

It's on these servers:
smurfy TF2 #1 - Greatest Hits + Nomination + Map Vote 103.4.17.198:27015
smurfy TF2 #3 - Payload, A/D, Custom Maps + Map Vote 118.127.32.116:27055

The map is available via !nominate and comes up randomly but only when there's 22 or more players (we do this with all custom maps to prevent them killing the server).

Keep in mind the servers are in Australia so there's a good chance you'll get taken out by the ping kicker. :)
 
goosmurf

goosmurf

L1: Registered
Sep 22, 2012
23
18
I take back the suggestions I made earlier -- the balance is just fine.

We've played this map several more times and our players really love it.

One summed it up with "it's the only CTF map I actually enjoy".

Many players describe it as "hectic" which is both a compliment and a criticism. It's a compliment because the game play is so dynamic - with so many routes into the Red base there's no time for turtling, and it's a criticism because it feels a little fatiguing to be constantly "on" for the entire duration of the map :)

Overall it's by far the best received community map we have run, well done!
 
DonutVikingChap

DonutVikingChap

L5: Dapper Member
Mar 15, 2013
233
139
goosmurf said:
I take back the suggestions I made earlier -- the balance is just fine.

We've played this map several more times and our players really love it.

One summed it up with "it's the only CTF map I actually enjoy".

Many players describe it as "hectic" which is both a compliment and a criticism. It's a compliment because the game play is so dynamic - with so many routes into the Red base there's no time for turtling, and it's a criticism because it feels a little fatiguing to be constantly "on" for the entire duration of the map :)

Overall it's by far the best received community map we have run, well done!
Click to expand...

Wow, i'm really happy to hear that!
I definitely didn't expect such positive feedback for what is still my first map.

I'm still working on a new version, so if you or your players find any other gameplay issues, weird detailing or bugs please let me know :)
This is the current changelog for the unfinished Beta 13:
- Changed the texture under the down-going RED spawn door to make more sense
- Moved the intelligence sign in the vent
- Fixed being able to stand on the edge of the guard towers during setup time
- Added an areaportal that substantially improved performance in the intel room
- Added some more hint brushes
- Fixed some stupid geometry
- Added some crates & barrels to a corner in the intel room
- Fixed some crates floating an inch above the ground
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
DonutVikingChap

DonutVikingChap

L5: Dapper Member
Mar 15, 2013
233
139
More than 1 year later and I finally got a new version of this map!

Beta 13 (B) is here and it brings a lot of important changes compared to Beta 12! In fact, the changelog was so long that I had to make a separate txt file for the full changelog. So now you can view all the changes for every version since the very first playable version, along with the release date and download link for each one! (Link to the changelog can be found in the OP.)

Here are a few highlights from the changelog for this version:

- Fixed being able to get onto the roof of RED base as a sniper
- Added a tunnel between the cap building and the alternate route from BLU spawn
- Added a small extension to the builing at RED spawn's alternate exit to reduce spawncamping
- Added a vent prop to the outside of RED's base to reduce a sniper sightline
- Added a dropdown outside BLU spawn to reduce spawncamping and taking the intel the wrong way
- Decreased cap time from 20 to 18
- Increased RED standard respawnwavetime from 8 to 9
- BLU standard & fast respawnwavetime is now always 2
- Added a delay timer to the intelligence; every time it is reset it now takes 20 seconds before it can be picked up again
- Increased the time bonus received for picking up the intel from 25 seconds to 35 seconds
- Changed the road in the courtyard from a displacement to overlays
- Added an area portal that substantially improved performance in the intel room
- Compiled the map using advanced lighting settings
- Added a big detail room near the RED spawn 1337666

I hope this map can finally reach RC status at some point soon so I can be proud to call it my first complete map, and I have a feeling it's getting pretty close! Though I will definitely continue tweaking it until I'm satisfied with the test results and how it plays. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom