TF2Maps.net Major Mapping Contest #10: A Tale of Two Skillsets

EDIT: Forgive me, this violates contest rules.

Gamemaster1379 said:

Forgive me if this isn't an appropriate place to post this (if it isn't, please delete this).

For anyone who is looking to enter this contest, but doesn't have any plans yet. I am working with a team right now for a custom MVM map. The map's theme is that of a historical museum based on the history of TF2 itself (primarily hitting on major update content, etc). We have a few hands on board that are capable of contributing to the map, but we do not have anyone with the skills of making the map itself (none of us are skilled or oriented with Hammer).

While none of us have map making skills, we will be able to contribute in other ways. One modeler has offered to make custom assets on an on-need basis, and I will personally be doing all the mission writing (I do it all from scratch, no mvm.tf generators). Other flavors, such as graphical art or sfx can be provided on an on-need basis.

A few top-down perspective layouts have been mulled over by a modeler and myself, but nothing is final. There is a foundation there is a mapper wants to just pick up and go, but modifying the design is not out of the question.

If anyone is interested, I have a post about it over in the requests forum here. Slightly more detail is posted there, and a link to my Steam ID is also available.

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It would be considered as collaboration, no?

Fr0Z3n said:

This is very much collaboration, sorry. Anyone who takes this up as their contest entry will hit the collab rules and be DQ'd.

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Ah, my mistake. Apologies.

I'll participate in Stage Two.

I think I'm going to go the whole 9 yards with this one.
which means each stage is now officially worth 4.5 yrds
glhf europe

Is what me and rexy did to the arpass contest acceptable?

If you look at the artpass map, there's massive overhangs at both A and just after B, we removed both of those to turn it into a mansion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abm5cswTKcg

See here there's no overhang, nor is there at cp A:

That's fine: it barely affects the gameplay.

I think its good that people are allowed to actualy influence some of the gameplay. Sometimes visuals go over the gameplay just because the pure gameplay part might be poor for detail. However, it shouldnt harm. In manor at that overhaul the side area is also closed off, which actualy could have worked for an engy.

Im thinking on participating in stage one but im not sure of stage 2. Even of stage 1 it depends on the state of my map (im a slow mapper at times, and sometimes i can rush through map parts fast).

However, the rules contain a mistake: Must be able to spawn 32 players (16 per team).
That is impossible for mvm to decently use. Mvm can work with 6 spawns on red (recommended is 10 due to 10vm) and any number of spawns for blue. Even 1 is fine since they spawn outside your view. Set the requirement to 6 or 10 spots for mvm to be safe.

For mvm i think the following rules need to be applied:
- Must contain sentry busters and they must be able to reach all sentry spots. (it might be by design to place your sentry there, but if a buster cant reach it then its an exploit - not to mention other bots, bots dont jump alot). Nobuild if the buster cant reach it. Extra note: that doesnt mean they are forced to walk on the area, if they explode on the edge of it and allways kill the sentry that way then its a fine alternative. The same is on mannhattan aswel.
- The popfile must mention the difficulty (there is no use on testing an expert wave with intermediate players - they wont have fun. And expert players also will feel bored on normal/intermediate waves).

This is important for the balance part and shows you have tested your missions.

I think these needn't be explicit rules, in the same way as we dont specifically need to state that you shouldn't be able to get outside standard maps.

For the second stage, if you make the custom content yourself, do you still need to release it?

LeSwordfish said:

I think these needn't be explicit rules, in the same way as we dont specifically need to state that you shouldn't be able to get outside standard maps.

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To note, this is important to decide the balance on an mvm map. Its equaly important to the red/blue win ratio.

If you created an intermediate wave it shouldnt behave as expert just because your team lacks a heavy. If its intermediate all classes should work and the only requirement would be 1 scout and 1 engy.

Slight mistakes (intermediate is advanced or advanced is intermediate) are acceptable. Those dont say the waves are broken or unbalanced. its just named wrong. If you talk about advanced these days people many times just forget the steel trap tour.

For the mvm contest we didn't require explicit difficulties: I don't think it's vital here. We're measuring enjoyment, not how much it meets a (vaguely arbitrary) difficulty standard. Of course you can include one, but I don't think it should be mandatory. I'll admit, though, i'm open to persuasion on this.

Enjoyment is heavily based in skill level when dealing with a Human vs AI game. No challenge, no fun. No chance, no fun. Dunno if that means you need to have difficulty options for the contest, but it certainly factors into enjoyment.

Thats why it matters. Even though intermediate is too easy to me i can still get my team to adjust for it.

The normal mode i created before was being tested by us using the following team setup:
Demoknight
Gunslinger
Huntsman
Gunscout
Tomislav heavy
Quick fix medic

This made us handicapped in such way that normal is actualy going to feel more difficult. That is how you can adjust for easier waves and why i want an indication of what to expect. That the indication might be wrong by 1 difficulty step is fine to me. Steel trap advanced these days is also intermediate in difficulty.

I have returned to create horrible maps that I think are great but actually really suck and submit them into contests where I have no chance to win! Ah well, this gives me an excuse to map.

~Good Ol' Hexacorn.

I've never mapped before, but I feel like detailing would be the most enjoyable part for me. Keeping sightlines, choke points, and height advantages straight would get me all muddled and bogged down I think. I'll try detailing some orphaned maps or something until March as practice. Hopefully I'll be able to enter, sounds like a lot of fun!

Sevin said:

Keeping sightlines, choke points, and height advantages straight would get me all muddled and bogged down I think.

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Story of my life