MVM Sewer Invasion

s0da72

L2: Junior Member
Jan 11, 2013
74
32
=========================== a6

fixed texture issue by train tunnel
fixed texture issue by pipe in second room
add addtional sentry locations
fixed texture issue on pipe in third room.
changed starting currency in pop file to 2000
added robot engineers with short circuit weapon 3rd wave
 

s0da72

L2: Junior Member
Jan 11, 2013
74
32
====================================== a7 changes

- added smooth groups to pipe to give it a more rounded look
- did a full analyze on nav mesh, this fixes bots like the gaint demoman not firing it's weapon
- added handrails to stairs to help bots navigate paths without getting stuck
- increased starting currency to 4000
- added overlays
- added addtional static_props
- download link updated
 

s0da72

L2: Junior Member
Jan 11, 2013
74
32
================================================== ============ changes a8

-- added and built cubemaps
-- fixed issue which prevented user from spawning in second spawn point
-- ajust dirt walls surrounding pipes
-- added wires to lights
-- added a few more overlays
-- download includes two maps mvm_sewer_invasion_8a, and mvm_sewer_invasion_expert_8a
each with their own nav and pop files.
-- mvm_sewer_invasion_8a.pop intermidate level with waves 1 - 6 (moderately difficult)
-- mvm_sewer_invasion_expert_8a.pop expert level with waves 1 - 7 (extremely difficult)
-- mvm_sewer_invasion_expert_8a.pop increased money given per wave
-- download link updated
 
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s0da72

L2: Junior Member
Jan 11, 2013
74
32
================================================== changes a9

-- updated map layout to include 4 paths instead of 3.(layout print screen updated)
-- removed stairway in middle room. Stair way is now located in a new adjacent room.
-- fixed issue where player can get stuck on mannco store roof.
-- Added additional platforms in hatch room where 4th path enters into hatch room.
-- Added 3d skybox, buildings can now be seen when looking up at the openings.
-- Added a model created by 'Cerulean' as an EMP generator.
-- Added custom particle effects to act as a EMP pulse.
-- Added particle effects for gas leaks.
-- Added new class Icon for short circuit engineers in wave 3
-- download link updated.



I took a stab at creating a class icon the second one from the left with the 'wrench and short circuit' symbol

AcDrJoq.png
 
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s0da72

L2: Junior Member
Jan 11, 2013
74
32
======================================= a10 changes

-- Update room where robots spawn out of the pipes. The pipe have been moved farther back
allowing players more room to setup a defensive.
-- The layout 1st room has been changed to allow a right and left path, for robots to go.
stairs have been moved, around to allow for this.
-- Added an additional tunnel to the left that can spawn robots.
-- player spawn rooms have been increased in size, and the upgrade stations has been
moved toward the rear wall.
-- The EMP reset has been changed to 60 seconds. A player that activates
the EMP pulse 'during an active wave' will receive 25 credits.
-- population file has been updated to have 10 waves instead of 6.
-- added items and particle effects to certain robot templates
-- added another platform by the player spawn points to allow players to access path #4
without needing to go all the way around through the middle section.
-- updated the entrance to be wider for path number 4 located in the middle section.
-- download link updated
 

s0da72

L2: Junior Member
Jan 11, 2013
74
32
============================================== a11 changes

-- added additional cubemaps
-- updated displacements in red player spawn room.
-- Added custom icons for sunstick scout, burning mackeral, fanowar scouts, combat space engineer, and burning knights
-- Increased final tank health
-- reduced amount of credits given in wave 9 and 10.
-- Added additional urber medic to giant heavies that spawn in wave 10.
-- fixed static props showing through floor in third room.
-- Fixed light generator being embedded in wall path 4.
 
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MarshalN

L1: Registered
Dec 19, 2010
13
5
Hi there, I just played your map's a10 version. I've played some earlier versions before. I'm not a mapmaker, so I'm speaking purely from the standpoint of someone who plays a fair bit of mvm.

I think the map is much better now with the smaller/tighter spaces than the earlier versions, which were really wide, open, and hard to play (mostly because the bots could shoot you easily, but you can't do the same). I think there are now some other things though that need a little work

1) It seems to me that there's way too much money in the a10 version, even before you get to waves 9 or 10. By wave 4 my pyro was basically fully upgraded. I think you can safely cut the amount of money by half and it'll still be easy enough.

2) We played to the last wave with basically four people - two engies, one heavy, one pyro. There was also a scout and sniper, but in terms of damage they didn't do much, and we rarely left the front cave. We had two sentries set up, as follows

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=158346321

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=158346287

And that, basically, took care of everything pretty much as soon as they spawn. There aren't enough bots to even destroy the sentries. We rarely died. Some waves, like wave 9, for example, felt way too easy - with one air blasting pyro who is fully upgraded in resistances, the scouts/soldiers didn't even make it halfway up the ramp.

3) The only time we had some trouble was in wave 10 when one of the bots slipped past us, and we started getting engies behind us. That was the only point at which we ran into some problems. It was more annoying than anything though, as the breaks between bots spawning was really long, so my time, as pyro, was spent hunting down engies. The rest of the team stayed to kill bots spawning. It wasn't challenging either, because of the aforementioned reasons

4) The jarate thrower isn't working - he just hangs around the engi that he spawned next to and just sits there.

Right now I think the mission is about intermediate in terms of difficulty. Regular advanced missions are harder than this. I believe it can be made more difficult with more bots that are harder to kill - steel gauntlets, for example, are a great way to push the bomb along, and so are demoknights. Having two tanks come out at the same time might also make things tougher - right now I notice only the left tank hole is used (or maybe I missed one or forgot). I think using giant medics can help you push the map out of the first room. Tanks + a lot of bots can also do that.

Also, in terms of the map layout, I wonder if you could make it so that the initial room is smaller - right now it's really huge, and the bots are pretty much at the mercy of the players. That's fine, if the bots are a lot harder to kill and come in larger numbers, but they aren't, so right now I think the map is too easy for those who play a decent amount of mvm. Maybe reduce the amount of health/ammo in that room, decrease the length of the first room, and also perhaps allow bots to come out of the tank holes during non-tank waves. Right now since it's possible to just defend one point, it becomes quite simple to do.
 

s0da72

L2: Junior Member
Jan 11, 2013
74
32
I think there are now some other things though that need a little work


Thanks MarshalN for your input. Finding a good balance is difficult and any feedback that helps is much appreciated.

a10 does have a intermediate level pop file. Initially a6 and a7 had a very difficult pop file, it was almost impossible to get past wave 5. When I released a8 I decided to redo the pop file and have it be more of an intermediate level one instead of a expert one. As I've released a9 through a11 I've been slowly increasing the difficultly trying to find that balance where it's not to difficult but not to easy. About 20 minutes ago I finished playing a11 on Sandy's server and it
still seems a bit too easy, and to much money.


For a12 I'm thinking of doing the following, which should address some of the issues you have brought up.

  1. Reducing the amount of credits given in Wave 5 through 7 from 2000 to 1200.
    This should make it somewhat more difficult to hold the bot spawn room at later levels, since people won't have fully upgraded resistance and weapons.

  2. reducing the amount of ammo/health packs such as changing medium to small... and full to medium.

    This should make it difficult to hold the bot spawn room as well(at least without an engineer).

  3. Add additional sentry setup locations to the mid level in bot spawn room, and reduce(or remove) sentry locations on the top level.

    The support engineers seem to setup up on the top level which is ineffective since the setup location is covered by a roof.

  4. Add additional sniper support missions to use the upper tunnel, to snipe at players on the lower level.

  5. Add additional pyro/heavy support missions to use the side tunnels as well as the upper tunnel.

    This should make it difficult holding the bot spawn room since attacks can come from different directions, other than what is in front of you.

  6. Remove Jarate thrower..
The below image is the current pop file stats for each wave in a11(it also shows the totals for the entire file).

NZmUjd8.png
 
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MarshalN

L1: Registered
Dec 19, 2010
13
5
I do remember your very difficult pop files - I remember trying to play it and it's way too tough for a random team to beat. You could just have two versions - an easy version and a harder one. Right now yours is definitely in the intermediate difficult zone, I think.

I think cutting money out of the middle waves would be a good idea - maybe even down to 800-900 territory. 2000 is definitely too high atm, since I was maxed health regen by like wave 7. Bone Shaker, as a comparison, offers a max of 8850 credits, and even that is already a lot of money so that people don't fret about lost credits when playing, and bone shaker is a lot harder than this file is currently.

I think one way to make the front of the map less viable for engineers to just camp is to kill the ammo packs up front. It forces the engineers to use their dispenser if they want to have a gun up there, which reduces the amount of camping that we were able to do.

Change 5 that you listed will definitely help reduce the amount of camping that we were able to do.

I think one way to make the waves a bit more exciting is to reduce the wait time between spawns. Right now there's a lot of waiting around. I think it kills the excitement a bit. Instead what we get is a lot of sentry busters.

One thing I forgot to mention: right now wave 9 is way easier than wave 8. For wave 8 we got pushed back a bit because the giant heavies didn't die right away. Wave 9, however, was a bit of a joke. Not that all waves must be harder than the one before, but after wave 9 we were all like "uh, that was it?" I'd suggest, to start, doubling the number of giant soldiers and have two pop out at the same time, plus giant scouts that spawn a few seconds after so that they'd appear together. You might also want to make the giant soldiers fire faster (I forgot if they're rapid fire - I seem to remember not), and maybe turn all the medics into uber medics. That will make it a bit more challenging.
 

s0da72

L2: Junior Member
Jan 11, 2013
74
32
I think one way to make the waves a bit more exciting is to reduce the wait time between spawns. Right now there's a lot of waiting around. I think it kills the excitement a bit. Instead what we get is a lot of sentry busters.

Yeah I'll look at reducing the spawn times to pick up the pace

One thing I forgot to mention: right now wave 9 is way easier than wave 8.

I'll make some changes to 9 that should increase the difficultly of the wave.
 

s0da72

L2: Junior Member
Jan 11, 2013
74
32
new release adding suggestions MarshalN mentioned

========================================================= changes a12

-- fixed missing particles effect for EMP caused by invalid map name during pack build.
-- Reduced amount of money wave 5 - 7
-- Reduced wavespawn spawn times
-- Added Steel Fists to waves 1-3
-- Added random support heavyweapons/pyro/demoman/soldier to spawn out of lower and upper tunnels
-- Reduced ammo pack sizes
-- Added func_nobuild to box car tops in train tunnel
-- Added additional Clips to prevent players going into certain areas
-- Increased number of robots spawned per wave
-- Increased wave 9 difficultly

Wave stats:
eJ0ou3k.png
 

s0da72

L2: Junior Member
Jan 11, 2013
74
32
===================================================== changes a13

-- Updated short circuit engineer icon, sun stick scouts, and fan of war scouts
-- Added icons for aces & eights solider, lucky_shot soldiers, robo cops, and space marine soldier
-- Added additional detail to path 4
-- Fix gap showing through platform in the middle room
-- decreased credits given in wave 5 through 7 from 1200 to 1000
-- increased credits given in wave 1 through 2 from 600 to 800
-- decreased health on giants from 8000 to 6000 in waves 8 through 10 to decrease difficultly
-- fixed delay in wave 6 where flame knights spawned to slowly causing wave 6 to be longer than it should
-- updated some of the static props fade distances
-- Added bz2 compressed file for servers wanting faster download of map
-- updated size of map photo menu to make sure it fits clip board
 

s0da72

L2: Junior Member
Jan 11, 2013
74
32
===================== changes b1

-- One of the severs hosting the map brought to my attention that a13 did not build with the custom content packed into the .bsp file(oops), this has now been fixed. Download link has been updated.
-- moved map from alpha to beta status.
 

s0da72

L2: Junior Member
Jan 11, 2013
74
32
======================================= changes b2

-- fixed texture issue in the middle section under the walkway that goes to path 4.
-- Added mission briefing text.
-- after playing a number of times on servers hosting the map, I noticed players were
frustrated with the engineer teleport hit location being so close to the red spawn room.
For this release all the teleport locations close to the red spawn rooms have been removed
and placed in the middle section.
-- Increased the difficultly of wave 10 by adding addtional gaint medics and giant heavy weapons bots.
-- Added 6 new pop files
mvm_sewer_invasion_b2_intermediate1.pop
mvm_sewer_invasion_b2_intermediate2.pop
mvm_sewer_invasion_b2.pop
mvm_sewer_invasion_b2_advanace1.pop (same as mvm_sewer_invasion_b2.pop)
mvm_sewer_invasion_b2_advanace2.pop
mvm_sewer_invasion_b2_expert.pop
mvm_sewer_invasion_b2_eulif.pop (for 10 man mvm server the others are for 6 man servers)
robot_sewer.pop (robot template defintions for sewer invasion map)

-- The download link no longer includes seperate files for the .NAV and .Pop files.
They are now packed into the .BSP
-- maplist thumbnail files are also include in the download.
Follow valves instructions to install (https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/TF2/Adding_a_Quicklist_Thumbnail)
 
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Pocket

Half a Lambert is better than one.
aa
Nov 14, 2009
4,697
2,581
For some reason your link got truncated.
 

s0da72

L2: Junior Member
Jan 11, 2013
74
32
I decided to do some exploring and have created a halloween version called mvm_sewer_invasion_event..

The below link is the download link for the map. The download link in the main thread post
does not point to this map since this is experimental.

http://www.2shared.com/file/l-BMKixi/mvm_sewer_invasion_event_b3.html


map Includes:

1.) reduced lighting, and used sky_night_01 skybox texture for map
2.) added candles, coffins, punkins, and punkins bombs.
3.) updated sounds to use holloween sounds.
4.) includes wheel_of_fortress(spins every 90 seconds to 180, does not spin when tanks spawn)
5.) When the bomb reaches the half way point, it is dropped and disable.
It will then randomly spawn either the headless_hatman or Mesmerus on top of the bomb.
Once the boss either leaves or is defeated the bomb is enabled to be carried again.
6.) EMP recharge time reduced to 45 seconds.
7.) a 2 minute reset time was added to the bomb


8.) Monoculus will spawn randomly, and if you jump in the teleport or (push a bomb carrier though it)
it will send you back to near the broken pipes where the bots spawn.
9.) uses mvm_ghost_town pop file however the maxactive counts has been reduced for each wave spawns by 4

CSfmX0P.jpg


m26IsKh.png
 
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s0da72

L2: Junior Member
Jan 11, 2013
74
32
new update

changes b4 ============================================================

-- Added two new mission pop files intermediate3 and advance3
-- fixed intermediate2 where wave 1 would not complete due to a bug in popfile
-- fixed texture display issue in seconded section under walkway
-- Added timer to bomb to reset after not being touched by robots for 3 mins
-- Added game_text to display message when EMP is ready to be discharged
-- Added hud hint for pipe to warn players of death pit
-- increased damage for fire traps located in the outer rooms connected to the second section

-- Added intermediate pop file for sewer Halloween version(mvm_sewer_invasion_event_b4)
-- Decreased the max spawn robots in mvm_sewer_invasion_event_b4
-- Download includes both the normal and Halloween versions of the map
 

Toxindude

L3: Member
Aug 2, 2012
103
4
This map has come a long way since I first seen it come out. The Halloween version sounds like fun to.

Congratz