Stacking teams after a scramble.

Does our server need a plugin that prevents team stacking?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 55.6%
  • No

    Votes: 4 44.4%

  • Total voters
    9

Bermuda Cake

L9: Fashionable Member
Feb 20, 2009
679
480
Oh I didn't mean being inside spawn or anything, just camping the spawnroom door. If you can do that once it might've been a fluke, you need to be able to pull it off multiple times for anyone to know if it's the map's fault really

I knew what you meant. It's not really the point of my post, anyway.
 

henke37

aa
Sep 23, 2011
2,075
515
Can we agree on that it is a bad thing if the top player in one team has a lower score than the tenth player on the other team? Such situations has happened.

I say: deal with the scramble, just see if you can find a competent teammates afterwards. If not, then there are always other maps and other days.

You may not enjoy being stuck on the "wrong" team, but make the best of the situation. Broaden your view and see if there is a newcomer that might be worth helping. If not then remember that players don't have constant skill nor do they have constant luck.

I am usually a mediocre player, but I can get lucky and get a MVP slot on the winning team. People have burts of skill and luck. But it is also a matter of team composition. Teammates support each other.
 

Sel

Banned
Feb 18, 2009
1,239
2,570
But when there are two people who, when playing together, are vastly better than everyone else in the game, and then consistently switch teams after scrambles to always be together, that's called being a dick.

That's all fine and well if we're doing casual play or something, but during a gameday we are doing scheduled testing of maps so that the mappers can improve them; we aren't playing just for fun. So if you get put on the team opposite your friend, suck it up and deal with it for ten minutes instead of deliberately unbalancing the test just so you can play together.

We're running random crits and random damage spread, we often have people running around playing gimmick roles and contributing literally nothing to the test, (and you want to paint this up as super serious testing?) obviously though, me and Trotim pocketing is, by far, the greatest threat to the quality of our map testing this community has ever witnessed. (Yeah, sure, you're not referring to us by name but it's blatantly obvious this thread is targeted at us)

I say: deal with the scramble, just see if you can find a competent teammates afterwards. If not, then there are always other maps and other days.

Henke, I have played here for the last 4 years. I am very familiar with most of the people who play here. I know who I'm going to enjoy playing with, and who is either not going to even bother protecting me, or not be able to. The vast majority of regulars are on the latter spectrum, so no, I can't just deal with it and pocket someone else.

You may not enjoy being stuck on the "wrong" team, but make the best of the situation. Broaden your view and see if there is a newcomer that might be worth helping. If not then remember that players don't have constant skill nor do they have constant luck.

I could not possibly care less about whether I'm on the winning or losing team, the only thing that concerns me is playing with Trotim because unless I am playing with him or one of the few other people I trust enough to pocket, I'm not having any fun.
 
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Sergis

L666: ])oo]v[
aa
Jul 22, 2009
1,874
1,257
We're running random crits and random damage spread, we often have people running around playing gimmick roles and contributing literally nothing to the test, (and you want to paint this up as super serious testing?) obviously though, me and Trotim pocketing is, by far, the greatest threat to the quality of our map testing this community has ever witnessed. (Yeah, sure, you're not referring to us by name but it's blatantly obvious this thread is targeted at us)

Half the people fucking around only makes it easier for a pocket pair to skew testing. But I guess we just don't give a shit. Fuck the mapper and fuck giving him a balanced test result. All that matters is our individual fun and the poor mapper can go die in a fire for all we care.

(..) GET GOOD. (..) go join LotusClan or something, because you really do not belong here.

Last time I checked, this is a mapping community, not a competitive one. Moreover, a mapping community mostly producing pub maps and doing 99% of playtesting in a pub environment. Therefore if there is something that does not belong here, it is the "get good" rhetoric and people who propagate it.
 

Dr. Spud

Grossly Incandescent
aa
Mar 23, 2009
880
854
ARGUMENT LEADERBOARD BY THANKS RECIEVED (As of 2/11 2:04 AM PDT):
Trotim | Selentic | Dr. Spud | theharribokid | Seba | Ravidge | Tech | Bermuda Cake | Tarry | Alex76

5|5|5|4|4|3|2|1|1|1



This is why I love these forums
 
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LeSwordfish

semi-trained quasi-professional
aa
Aug 8, 2010
4,102
6,597
There's an easy solution to this, and it's everyone stop being pricks.

If you think you might be unbalancing a test, suck it up and play some other class. You're telling me you can have no fun whatsoever as soldier? Lets face it, the gamedays are hardly a controlled environment, better balanced chaos than unbalanced chaos. Do not just demand people being beaten by you "get good" for fucks sake dude.

If you think someone's unbalancing your test, suck it up and be mature. Ask them politely to stop. Do not, as soon as they join the server, threaten them with kicking. Do not, as I had to persuade tech away from in chat, kick without warning on the first offence. Do not make a forum post demanding action without mod support or sanction for fucks sake dude.
 

RaVaGe

aa
Jun 23, 2010
733
1,210
Srsly guys, when your map will be played by another FFA server, do you really think that they will look about the stacking issue, I don't think so. Deal with it, see how your map plays when it's stacked, and take that as a feedback, TF2 IS a stacked game, you can't change that, modifying the teams to make them equals don't help the mapper that much. Of course there is stack and STACK, I don't mind to play against a "good" combo, but yeah playing against a prem div would break the playtest, but in this case I think everyone here know how to switch to the opposite team. Nice drama though, keep it up.

EDIT: I Voted NO, because the poll is stacked.
 

Fruity Snacks

Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums
aa
Sep 5, 2010
6,394
5,571
Has anyone ever thought of just trying the plugin out for a couple weeks/month? Honestly, bickering about it in this type of manner does not help, for or against it.

You should have it installed, try it out for 2, 3... no more than 4 weeks. Then come back and have a discussion.

There's an easy solution to this, and it's everyone stop being pricks.

If you think you might be unbalancing a test, suck it up and play some other class. You're telling me you can have no fun whatsoever as soldier? Lets face it, the gamedays are hardly a controlled environment, better balanced chaos than unbalanced chaos. Do not just demand people being beaten by you "get good" for fucks sake dude.

If you think someone's unbalancing your test, suck it up and be mature. Ask them politely to stop. Do not, as soon as they join the server, threaten them with kicking. Do not, as I had to persuade tech away from in chat, kick without warning on the first offence. Do not make a forum post demanding action without mod support or sanction for fucks sake dude.

And this ^
 

Trotim

aa
Jul 14, 2009
1,195
1,045
I didn't realize I was "being a dick" though, not until now that suddenly everyone hates me or something. I didn't see anyone ask me to change classes or keep myself back, it was always just the "don't play with Sel or you get banned" thing that seemed really wanton to me. Me and him joining the losing team to balance things out was still bad too I guess?

Now I feel shit for having done well trying to play properly. Sorry if I frustrated anyone, I was just too slow to pick up on this
 

A Boojum Snark

Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado
aa
Nov 2, 2007
4,775
7,669
This discussion is still a thing? What is this, 2009? I suggest a plugin that makes everyone's name a random number of blank characters so nobody knows who anybody is! Perfect anti-stacking!
 

Sel

Banned
Feb 18, 2009
1,239
2,570
If you think you might be unbalancing a test, suck it up and play some other class. You're telling me you can have no fun whatsoever as soldier? Lets face it, the gamedays are hardly a controlled environment, better balanced chaos than unbalanced chaos. Do not just demand people being beaten by you "get good" for fucks sake dude.

No, I'm sorry but there really is nothing beyond, "get good", to be said here. The ONLY thing that sets me and Trotim apart from most of the players here is that we pocket. A lot of the people here have played the game just as long as we have, and have comparable skill levels, all that it would take to counteract this "imbalance" would be any of the people whining about me pocketing Trotim, going and pocketing a friend or someone on the other team. That's it, but no, it's apparent that the people insisting we be separated aren't interested in putting in the miniscule amount of effort it would take to solve this "problem", and would rather just ruin our ability to enjoy the game because that's easier.

Has anyone ever thought of just trying the plugin out for a couple weeks/month? Honestly, bickering about it in this type of manner does not help, for or against it.

You should have it installed, try it out for 2, 3... no more than 4 weeks. Then come back and have a discussion.

No, we shouldn't. I realize you are relatively new here, so here's a little history lesson. This idiocy has surfaced multiple times in the past. One instance of this was back when Flame played here, we actually had people BOYCOTTING (That thread was a lot longer but most of the posts have been hidden) map tests because they whined he was too good, and ruined the balance of the test. It was pretty obvious to anyone with basic logical reasoning skills that one pro gamer was not nearly enough to "imbalance the test" and it was dealt with by doing absolutely nothing about it, because it was a non issue. This issue is no less imagined than the one with Flame was, the only difference here is that even together, me and Trotim don't even come close to being as good as Flame was.
 
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Tekku

aa
Aug 31, 2008
723
873
What makes you say that we shouldn't try this plugin, I hope you do understand that it wont restrict you playing together with Trotim in any form, you will be able to join the same team as him on map change.

The only thing that would be different, would be the fact that people would not be able to join spectate and try to join the opposite team, is that really a huge problem? How often could that happen? Depending on the map, there would barely be one, or more likely no scramble during the map.
If someone drops out from the enemy team, there should be no need to change teams anyways.

Also, if there was a scramble and if anyone feels that it made teams even more uneven, anyone is free to ask for another scramble.
On one hand, I would like to try this plugin, as it already is on the server in some form, and I am sure you are aware of that, but then on the other hand, I would like to see improvements to the scramble system as whole.

I really have nothing against you or Trotim, neither I try to start a crusade against you playing together most of the time. Excuse me if you feel that it is that way, might be that I expressed myself in not the best way. Anyways, Yes, I do agree now that I might have been a bit harsh about all this, but I hope that we will be able to prevent such things from appearing in further gamedays.
 

Sel

Banned
Feb 18, 2009
1,239
2,570
If it's such a non issue, trying anti-team stacking then shouldn't change anything and won't hurt anyone in the end. If it isn't an issue, then the anti-stacking shouldn't do anything.

Thanks for the warm welcome.

That's like saying if Flame being better than everyone was such a non issue, why didn't we just chase him out of the community immediately.

It being a non issue means we don't fix the problem that doesn't exist and as a result don't fuck things up for people who are only interested in playing together.

What makes you say that we shouldn't try this plugin, I hope you do understand that it wont restrict you playing together with Trotim in any form, you will be able to join the same team as him on map change.

The only thing that would be different, would be the fact that people would not be able to join spectate and try to join the opposite team, is that really a huge problem? How often could that happen? Depending on the map, there would barely be one, or more likely no scramble during the map.
If someone drops out from the enemy team, there should be no need to change teams anyways.

Oh so it doesn't restrict me from playing with Trotim except when it does? Do I even need to say anything here, or does that pretty much sum things up?

Also, if there was a scramble and if anyone feels that it made teams even more uneven, anyone is free to ask for another scramble.
On one hand, I would like to try this plugin, as it already is on the server in some form, and I am sure you are aware of that, but then on the other hand, I would like to see improvements to the scramble system as whole.

Make scramble distribute players based on score instead of just randomizing, add the plugin that allows players to always be placed with their balance buddy or whatever the plugin called it, then you get your team balancing scramble, and I get my pocket, both problems solved.

I really have nothing against you or Trotim, neither I try to start a crusade against you playing together most of the time. Excuse me if you feel that it is that way, might be that I expressed myself in not the best way. Anyways, Yes, I do agree now that I might have been a bit harsh about all this, but I hope that we will be able to prevent such things from appearing in further gamedays.

I dunno whether you honestly expect me to believe that, or if you're just trying to bullshit the rest of the community who wasn't present yesterday, either way, here's the (condensed) chatlog from yesterday's gameday for all to see why this discussion is even being had.

Player Trotim joined team BLU
TechTF : Hey trotim, what was the reason for you to switch to blue?
Trotim : oh fuck off
TechTF : Just to be with your butt buddy?
Sel : hey tech
TechTF : Yes?
Sel : last I checked
Sel : you're not server staff
Sel : nor are you an admin
TechTF : And?
Sel : and last time
Sel : both prestige and rav
Sel : overruled your silly little idea
TechTF : You know what
TechTF : !kick sel
Player Sel left the game (Kicked by administrator)
Teams will be auto-balanced in 5 seconds.
TechTF : idgaf


TechTF : Well sel, understand that you're noone who can do anything to me
Sel : really
Sel : and why is that
TechTF : Just complain to other admins, about MY gameday, that I run
TechTF : None of other admins run anything
Sel : except I did
TechTF : And?
TechTF : What will they do?
Sel : and both of them
Sel : told you you couldn't pull that shit
Sel : so
TechTF : You know I dont care, you dumbass
TechTF : Will they ban me? Kick me?
Sel : I'm kinda hoping so

TechTF : You do understand Sel, that I dont complain about you being good
*DEAD* TechTF : I complain about you ignoring the Scramble, that's meant to unstack teams, not you stacking them back together
TechTF : If you were split by the system, that means there was a reason to
Sel : yeah because scramble is so reliable
Sel : loll
[SM] Say '!votescramble, !scramblevote, or !sausage' to trigger a scramble vote
Sel : and the heads of the community have said
Sel : that I am able to
Sel : so it is a non issue
TechTF : Heads of the community don't run gamedays?
Sel : they still outrank you
TechTF : They dont even play TF2
Sel : so?
TechTF : Know what Sel, just shut the fuck up, and complain more
TechTF : It really was better when you were banned from tf2m
*DEAD* Sel : lol
Trotim : yeah showing bias is kinda dumb
*DEAD* Sel : you're a laugh buddy

[IRC] Ravidge : fuuuuuuuuuuuck I hate drama. I've said this before, if its an actual issue, just make a poll about it on the forum. The scramble plugin can be adjused to disable the re-st
TechTF : I wont make any poll
TechTF : My gameday, my rules
TechTF : If they dont like it, they can just not play
[IRC] Ravidge : Actually, you dont get to rule the gameday with a ironfist. As host you are to enforce the community rules that we have in place.
TechTF : I dont care
TechTF : Ban me, from TF2M if you want
*DEAD* TechTF : Just because you're listening to some butt hurts guys
 
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Rikka

L5: Dapper Member
Feb 10, 2009
208
388
To Selentic, and Trotim, no, bad dog/wolf/whatever things. You know the switching teams after scramble thing isn't cool. I do see this as a good of the test over the fun of an individual situation.

At the same time, the pocket thing isn't a problem. We've been over it. I thought it was stupid years ago when people bitched about pocketing and general, and I think its stupid when it has to do with this specific pair. They work well together, but they can be dealt with by fundamental "kill the medic first" play.

A quick story from years ago. Trotim dominated, and I mean completely dominated, a test as a pain train demonknight with selentic. My thought wasn't that they were ruining the test. My thought was everyone else needs to not suck so much. My thoughts haven't changed.

So on the issue of the scramble, I guess I agree, no switching. But if anyone is seriously bringing up pocketing again, then I get to start treating every rocket jumper soldier and third sniper like absolute crap.
 

Tekku

aa
Aug 31, 2008
723
873
I see no point of bringing up the game chat from yesterday, but now that you mentioned it
Sel : and the heads of the community have said
So basically you asked only one Admin about this issue, sorry but Prestige didn't really contribute to this, so don't mention him. While clearly if you had asked harribo, or any other mod, you would get a completely different opinion about this. So don't base one persons opinions as whole communities.


Also, I do agree with Rikka, I never ever mentioned pocketing as the issue, and both of you Sel and Trotim should stop bringing that up, as that doesn't contribute in anyway.
 

Bermuda Cake

L9: Fashionable Member
Feb 20, 2009
679
480
To be honest and based on that Sel, Tech and Rav all look bad. I would've just kicked the both of you.

Ravidge looked fairly reasonable to me - or am I misreading your post Fr0Z3n?

EDIT: I don't mind running some gamedays for a bit if someone tells me what the commands are
 
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Fruity Snacks

Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums
aa
Sep 5, 2010
6,394
5,571
Ravidge looked fairly reasonable to me - or am I misreading your post Fr0Z3n?

There was a clear and obvious conflict, and it was just pushed off, instead of providing a more immediate (though temporary) solution. If such a solution was put in place, then things might've gone more smoothly and been resolved a bit better


My 2 Cents.

Edit, that sounded malicious, sorry, didnt mean that. But I stand by statement on the lack of action.
 
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