Tips for a vertically oriented A/D map?

Nanoworlder

L1: Registered
Aug 30, 2012
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I've been thinking of creating an A/D map with a subterranean theme.

Forward for BLU in this case is downward. Each second point of each stage is on a lower tier than the previous and each successive stage is usually lower than the previous one.

While this thread may have helped in general A/D mapmaking, I wonder if anyone has tips for a an A/D map where the action generally travels downward instead of in the usual space filling curve.
 

Nanoworlder

L1: Registered
Aug 30, 2012
14
2
The inherent problem with having the map get progressively lower is that the attackers have a constant height advantage.

What if I make two tiers/plateaus on each stage connected by tunnels and the second tier of the previous stage and the first tier of the current stage overlap?

This should confine that high ground issue to the tunnel connecting the tiers.
 

tyler

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Sep 11, 2013
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If I had a nickel for every time someone proposed this or tried and failed, I'd probably have close to twenty big ones.
 

Nanoworlder

L1: Registered
Aug 30, 2012
14
2
Well I do it anyway.

Just got to keep most of the fighting on the flat tiers. Although, the inter-tier tunnels will have a very high chance of becoming chokepoints.
 

tyler

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Sep 11, 2013
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You might first want to read these guideline threads for ideas on how vertical space works in TF2:
http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=18699
http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=14943
http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=12605

Then you might want to look at these maps that tried extreme vertical space before you and try to examine why they never went anywhere/no one liked them:
http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?p=259590
http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=19809
http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=16748
http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=19919
http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=19596
http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=19734
http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=19262
http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=19112
http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=19090
http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=6113

Some of these maps also attempt chokey halls between tiers.

(This is only in the past few months, I got bored. I also didn't bother linking the ones where the mapper blanked the screenshots and left quietly after we told them their idea was bad. I also didn't go to FPSBanana, which is chock full of them.)

When you can solve all the problems enumerated in the guides and discovered by these mappers, you can make your map. Hint: it's all fundamentally the same problem. Believe us if you want, or don't. Up to you. I'd be more inclined to take our word for it and not make a several tiered map full of chokey hallways, but hey, I've only been testing maps on a daily basis for like three years, what do I know?
 

Nanoworlder

L1: Registered
Aug 30, 2012
14
2
When you can solve all the problems enumerated in the guides and discovered by these mappers, you can make your map. Hint: it's all fundamentally the same problem. Believe us if you want, or don't. Up to you. I'd be more inclined to take our word for it and not make a several tiered map full of chokey hallways, but hey, I've only been testing maps on a daily basis for like three years, what do I know?

Ok ok sorry.

I don't mean to be disrespectful and I am aware of the issues, but I'm still going to try it because, hey, may be it might work better than the previous ones.
 

fubarFX

The "raw" in "nodraw"
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Jun 1, 2009
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consider this, do you know why our eyes are set on both sides of our head and not on top of each other? because we evolved in a horizontal world, not vertical. that's also how our brains work and as a results, humans don't look up ever. what I'm getting at is, chances are your layout will not be intuitive. people will tell you that vertical combat is what makes a map fun but even with a lot of verticality, tf2 is still vastly horizontal.
 

Wander

L3: Member
Sep 16, 2010
148
55
Go for it

The only way to learn what does and doesn't work in mapping is by trying it out, and failing many times over and over
Not by by listening to a bunch of people who tell you what does and doesn't work (no matter if they're right or not)


(I felt this post was needed after so many creativity-killers telling you how horrible it will be)
 
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Ælement

Comfortably mediocre
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Dec 21, 2010
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We do have a pretty bad habbit of tearing everything apart. Hell, our unofficial interpretation of quality is much, much harsher than VALVe's.

I say go for it, but don't get too caught up in the idea that it should be vertical all the time. Do what works, and try to keep the verticality as much in focus as possible while doing so.
 

tyler

aa
Sep 11, 2013
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Ok ok sorry.

I don't mean to be disrespectful and I am aware of the issues, but I'm still going to try it because, hey, may be it might work better than the previous ones.

Alright, but be aware that's what each of those mappers thought before you. There's a reason you don't see very many outstanding custom maps like this, that's all I'm saying. I'd focus on pinning down core TF2 gameplay, not innovating against all odds for a game you haven't mapped for.
 
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Nanoworlder

L1: Registered
Aug 30, 2012
14
2
In case things don't work out like many before me, I could just give an illusion of going deeper.

Each stage has a different cliff texture, with elevators at the beginning and end of each stage.