CP Harbour [Deleted]

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LeSwordfish

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Aug 8, 2010
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I dont like how this has the steps on it. The bottom and top step look pretty close to the same height to me, and I can run straight up one but not the other. Just make it a ramp. Or clip the top step.

0E08D8BA861B973B5637327A5022AB6B3E6CBDFB


I think the containers are more powerful than granaries. Firstly, the area entrances are closer together, and the containers are fairly close to all of them. There's no advantage over them, or way onto them for scouts (like the walkways on Granary). I don't know what i'd suggest to help this. Possibly swap the top containers for thin walls or something? IDK.

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Even though i can see that there's no doorway up there, i keep wanting to run up there for a height advantage over the mid. I was going to suggest moveing them to the other side, but i admit there's not much space for that.

Possibly that height advantage needs reworking. It's further from the point than the other one, and harder to get to.
 

Fruity Snacks

Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums
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Sep 5, 2010
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I think the issue with your mid is that you have no visibility. It isn't very cramped, but you can't easily see what is coming until it is right on top of you. I think you should look into maybe reworking the cover around mid so that players can see (though, might not be able to react) other players coming a bit further away.
 

waxpax

L5: Dapper Member
Feb 25, 2011
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http://www.mediafire.com/?43h4zs5ga1m36v8

stv from tonight's pug.

The map is really rough and needs a bit of work before it could be played in comp.

Last would've been capped with every push if the cap didn't take so long to cap, even with the cap time, you basically lost after you lost 2nd. I think you need to try and make a last that can be defended yet still attacked (very hard balance to make). As it is right now, there's really no where you can hold your combo in a safe position but still be able to shut down entrances well while holding last.

There is a really bad sightline across mid that let's you snipe across the entire mid.

People complained about not having enough ammo, but that might have just been being unfamiliar with the map.

Pushing second thru water is useless most of the time because, while you might surprise the enemy, they'll probably have height advantage on you when you pop out.

You probably need to reconsider the placement of your health packs to allow for the heavies to rollout.

I think the biggest thing that needs to be changed if you want this map to be played in comp is to rework last in a way that you can defend it but not make it so easy to defend that it's impossible to take.
 

Trotim

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Jul 14, 2009
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I understand most of what you said waxpax (a screenshot of the mid sightline would be great), but...

You probably need to reconsider the placement of your health packs to allow for the heavies to rollout.

...what? This is for GRU rollout, I guess? Is that really a thing a map needs to facilitate, because quite frankly the GRU can piss off.

And does that mean Scout/Soldier/Demo rollouts are fine?
 
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Bereth

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Dec 13, 2011
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I understand most of what you said waxpax (a screenshot of the mid sightline would be great), but...



...what? This is for GRU rollout, I guess? Is that really a thing a map needs to facilitate, because quite frankly the GRU can piss off.

And does that mean Scout/Soldier/Demo rollouts are fine?

He means the demo/soldier rollouts (mostly the demo). GRU are banned.
 

waxpax

L5: Dapper Member
Feb 25, 2011
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Yeah, sorry; in comp it's usually a common term to use heavies to refer to the heavier classes, ones with more hp and damage--soldier, demo and heavy, usually--and is normally just the soldier and demo since those are the ones in the cookie cutter line-up.

I mention that the rollout might need health added to it because, if I remember right, there's really only one medium health pack that the demo can really pick up and still be relatively fast to mid, if there was another health pack that a soldier could pick up, it might be better. Idk if you'd be able to do a gunboat rollout on this map because of the health pack placement, for instance (not that every map needs one, though, I guess) but I'd have to let some jumpers look at the map to really be sure.

Edit: And the sight line should be p evident from the demo, as it's about the only vantage that the sniper used at mid. Basically it was from the middle door to mid (the door that leads to the water entrance, to the other side of the mid. If you'd still like a ss, I can get you one later.
 
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Trotim

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Oh, no, it was just me being stupid, sorry =P

Still the rollouts seemed mostly fine to me -
Demo would jump from last, get the small medkit, then jump into that house with the ramp to get a medium, and then jump onto the containers to block fall damage and get another small below.
Soldier would also jump from last, not get the medkit, go into the water and rocketjump off that one wall in the corner to exit faster, and get another small I think

Not totally sure either, the point is that the route through water was actually viable for rollout imo and you'd end up slightly behind the Medic/Scout on the same route as them. I'm guessing EQ rollout is not a thing in your league?
 

Bereth

L4: Comfortable Member
Dec 13, 2011
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Oh, no, it was just me being stupid, sorry =P

Still the rollouts seemed mostly fine to me -
Demo would jump from last, get the small medkit, then jump into that house with the ramp to get a medium, and then jump onto the containers to block fall damage and get another small below.
Soldier would also jump from last, not get the medkit, go into the water and rocketjump off that one wall in the corner to exit faster, and get another small I think

Not totally sure either, the point is that the route through water was actually viable for rollout imo and you'd end up slightly behind the Medic/Scout on the same route as them. I'm guessing EQ rollout is not a thing in your league?

The rollouts weren't fine. The demos should arrive at least two seconds before the scouts if possible. They were arriving with the soldiers. That means they were going really slow. They ran an equalizer rollout, but only one soldier can run that.
 

Trotim

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Jul 14, 2009
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I didn't actually watch the demo, mind. Did they actually go the routes I mentioned? Fine I'll run through it and check the times again...

EDIT: Demo takes around ~15s, arrive with ~130+ health. You don't even need the first small if you got enough overheal, and before you do the last jump onto the containers at mid you actually are back at full health.
Scouts take pretty much exactly ~16s running through the hallway over the bridge onto mid, which is a bit soon after Demo I guess but
Soldiers need around ~25s taking the route through water but they do get another small when they exit the water and really need it, plus that is the route Scout and Medic took. Yes the Soldier route could use another small medkit I guess

So if the Demos were as slow as Soldiers either I'm misinterpreting something or they didn't realize what the rollout route is
 
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Lyra

L1: Registered
Apr 3, 2012
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Thanks for all the feedback guys.

Updated to a8, details in first post.
 

Sel

Banned
Feb 18, 2009
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There was a general agreement during the earlier test that the big fancy door at the front of the building should be opened before mid is capped to allow for a significantly quicker rollout, and then closed afterwards. As for the changes to last, I absolutely love the lobby area, but I'm not entirely sure I like the actual last point yet, we'll have to see how it plays out in further testing.

Good stuff.
 

Lyra

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Apr 3, 2012
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Updated to a9, I'd love to take some new pictures but it looks like valve broke spectator mode.
 

Freyja

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Jul 31, 2009
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Noclip + hide hud + hide viewmodel?

I mean, I have hide hud, hide viewmodel and net_graph 0 on the one button so it's more efficient than spectator.
 
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