TF2Maps.net Mapping Contest #7: Payload (Dynamic element)

dragonic2020 said:

I'm confused about the meaning of this following rule:

So by this rule, can I or can I not used theme packs such as Construction, Swamp and Bullet Crops?

P.S. My forums posts still say that my Steam Community profile is still not set up yet. It's been a while...

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You can use those packs, since they have been publicly released.

Why are people so keen to have pseudo-control points open doors, what's wrong with regular volume triggers. They work perfectly fine and aren't the least bit likely to confuse players.

grazr said:

Why are people so keen to have pseudo-control points open doors, what's wrong with regular volume triggers. They work perfectly fine and aren't the least bit likely to confuse players.

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Its the same idea I guess. Having a control point allows for the other team to block or cancel that trigger therefore stopping a door, in this example, from being opened. That would impede the pl progress.

I guess you could do the same with a volume trigger? If that same volume detects a player from the opposite team it would close the door? Yes? No?

grazr said:

Why are people so keen to have pseudo-control points open doors, what's wrong with regular volume triggers. They work perfectly fine and aren't the least bit likely to confuse players.

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I have a trigger that opens the door when players are inside it for a certain time, with the control point model (well, the A/D CTF one) right next to the door as a symbol that it's a capture area. It helps the player realize what they're meant to do, since the cap point is one of the most recognized models in the game.

What i mean is, to defend the cart you stand next to the cart, to push the cart you stand next to the cart. Standing at one location to open a door elsewhere on the map has nothing to do with the payload and is a pointlessly more confusing door mechanic.

Standing at a CP to make a cart travel from point A to B is an interesting mechanic, but to "make the cart go faster" is a little redundant when there's already a mechanic for that: Having more people on the cart. How will players away from the cart understand that what they are doing is making the cart go faster. Additionally, letting RED defend the cart from a distant location is just gonna make BLU players think the map/payload is broken.

What i'm seeing isn't people being particularly creative about cart dynamics, but being needlessly abstract for the sake of being the most whacky. I can't fathom why the first thought of some people when Ravidge said "dynamic payload" was "let's have flags" or "control points that open doors".

I guess what i'm getting at is people should be less focused on making some strange pseudo-hybrid payload map and focus on what's at the core of the contest. I'm not saying "be safe", i'm saying before you decide to make some weird mechanic, first consider "how is the payload involved" and "is it simple enough for players to understand without being walked through it".

Cranetop gets away with its dynamic stuff- and i'm going to say cranetop ONLY JUST gets away with its dynamic stuff- by making it the only option. The bomb must be lowered at the start, it must be lifted a the end. At both of these points the bomb fades into the background, almost, and the points become obvious. It is instantly obvious you can't move the cart at these points because it's hovering in midair.

In addition, you can see the cart from the control point and vice versa. There's no confusion about the effect your actions are having. Tieing the control point directly to the carts progression- so it shows on the HUD- helps with this, something that wouldn't happen with a door, say.

To everyone making a lift: use the Capture Zone markings if the size of the cap zone around the cart changes, please.

Players aren't trained to open doors with control points, so will be confused by it, at least the first time.

Oh, since people are probably gonna be doing rotating stuff here's a plug of Booj's rotation tut' and a VMF i made when experimenting with what i had learnt:

http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=4107

http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=1728

I hope I can actually complete a map for this, but it's going to have to take the backburner to schoolwork I almost wish this was posted at the beginning of my break so I could have gotten some smidgen of work done. I'm hoping that I'll be able to sober up and actually make a map based on gameplay analysis and goals instead of the shot-in-the-dark approach I've often taken.

grazr said:

Oh, since people are probably gonna be doing rotating stuff here's a plug of Booj's rotation tut' and a VMF i made when experimenting with what i had learnt:

http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=4107

http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=1728

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Thanks for this!
But how would I place an object (aka. the cart) on a rotating platform and have the object rotate with it?

The object would have to be prop_dynamic and you set its parent to whatever is rotating...

if you don't need it parented the whole time, when it gets to a path_track where it will need to be parented, you can use the I/O command "OnPass > [Name of rotating object] > SetParent" with the parameter as the name of the object that it should rotating with.


... determining that is when things get tricky

Fr0Z3n said:

The object would have to be prop_dynamic and you set its parent to whatever is rotating...

if you don't need it parented the whole time, when it gets to a path_track where it will need to be parented, you can use the I/O command "OnPass > [Name of rotating object] > SetParent" with the parameter as the name of the object that it should rotating with.


... determining that is when things get tricky

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Ok, lets say the rotating platform is very large, with some distance to push the cart. Would it then be possible to push the cart whilst the platform is rotating?
Since the cart is parented to the platform, this seems rather unlikely...

Technically I think the track points would be what is parented to the platform, not the cart.

Another possible trick for rotating platforms would be unparent all the models and such from the actual train using an OnPass I/O, teleport the train to a path_track out of the way, parent the rest of the PL entities to the rotating platform, then teleport the train back in the same manner, unparent everything from the platform, then reparent everything to the train.
It's not the most elegant solution, but it should theoretically work. I honestly have no idea if path_tracks CAN be parented, although I suppose I see no reason why not.

I can attest that unparenting/parenting through outputs is not the most stable of things. This may be my situation only, but SetParent always crashed my game when fired.

man, it's been so long since I've touched Hammer that I'd be way too scared to try again, but this contest is pretty cool! it's got my wheels turning on how to make some neat payload maps

so by in-game medal, do you mean "a prize valve will completely forget about delivering for over a year"?

Evang7 said:

it's got my wheels turning on how to make some neat payload maps

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Anyway, it looks like everyone's making fine progress :3

From what I've learned, you need to set up a second set of path_tracks and another train_watcher...


And even then it is tough.

Am I the onlyone doing PLR map for this competition? I doubt it will be anygood but atleast I'm trying something I haven't yet to try. And still wondering if I'm going to put elevator or just pushback zone in my map. Hopefully I'll release something working in next week.

TomHoen said:

Am I the onlyone doing PLR map for this competition? I doubt it will be anygood but atleast I'm trying something I haven't yet to try. And still wondering if I'm going to put elevator or just pushback zone in my map. Hopefully I'll release something working in next week.

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I'm doing one, don't worry

Me too.