Launchpad

ParanoidDrone

L3: Member
Feb 19, 2009
147
11
I really wish I could avoid double posting so much...

Since the muses have yet to strike for stage 2, I went ahead and decided to call it a2 once I added an extra route around the meatgrinder. The official changelog:

  • Simplified the interior path to point 1-2.
  • Added another path to point 1-2.
  • Textured most surfaces in a fit of mapper's block.
  • Added extra signage to direct players, especially outside of RED spawn.
 

Krowbar

L1: Registered
May 8, 2010
24
0
Cool map, dude. It looks like it needs a bit of refinement work but promising nonetheless!
I look forward to trying it out online sometime!
 

ParanoidDrone

L3: Member
Feb 19, 2009
147
11
Alpha 3 is now released! This is only important because it means Stage 2 is now fully functional.

Comments welcome on just about any aspect of the map.
 

ParanoidDrone

L3: Member
Feb 19, 2009
147
11
Alpha 4 released. I redid the tunnels throughout Stage 2 for various reasons and I like the result more than how it was in Alpha 3.

Of note is the large shaft between points 2-1 and 2-2, complete with humongous supporting beam...thing. Eventually that'll be a non-operating lift, but I went with simple wood to save me the effort for now.

Hoping to get an impromptu test of this eventually, if only to get some more feedback on the layout.
 

Krowbar

L1: Registered
May 8, 2010
24
0
Sweet, dude! I'll download it and give you the detailed walk-thru review next time I see you on.
Aside: saved you from a triple post, again!
 

ParanoidDrone

L3: Member
Feb 19, 2009
147
11
Sweet, dude! I'll download it and give you the detailed walk-thru review next time I see you on.
Aside: saved you from a triple post, again!

And I thank you for that.

Alpha 5 released. The big thing I added was a new side area next to point 2B that's probably too big for its own good, but the scale just looked weird when I tried making it smaller. Mostly due to the fuckton of those Granary crates. Cosmetically, I made the wooden building in front of the point a concrete extension of RED's own structure.

I forgot to include it in the version history, but I also added ammo packs throughout Stage 2 in response to feedback. Unfortunately, this is the only change due to feedback that I've made due to limited feedback to work with. (A grand total of 2 testing sessions, one of which was for Alpha 1, will do that.)
 
Last edited:

Krowbar

L1: Registered
May 8, 2010
24
0
Hey Paranoid! I just did a run thru of your map and here are some of the things I saw...

Starting with the first map:
At the first point near the spawn, players can still jump on the lamps by the spawn gate (At least the one circled in red). Intentional or not? Personally I like it.
cp_quarry_a50009.jpg


Secondly, I chatted with you before about removing on of these ramps. Preferable the red circled one. The idea of "ramps on the defender's side and no on the attacker's" is common in several of the official maps. I think you said you were planning to.
cp_quarry_a50008.jpg


Being a little nit-picky, the background in the map could use some cleaning up (and I'm sure you will sooner or later).


On to map two! One glaring problem is this black hole/gap in the map off the right hand side of the attacker's spawn. It is by the stairs there. As Master Yoda would say, "How embarrassing!"
cp_quarry_a50001.jpg


This drop down area near there could maybe use a spiffy gate or something to spice it up?
cp_quarry_a50002.jpg


Can player's rocket jump up to this point (circled in red)? I tried and couldn't because the roof or something was blocking me (in blue). When I noclip'd up there all I found was a little room. It looks very enticing and will end up making player's aggravated that it's there but unaccessible.
cp_quarry_a50000.jpg


The large building here is also not accessible. Intentional? A two-sticky jump or a double rocket jump should get players up there.
cp_quarry_a50007.jpg


Things also still look a bit, eh?, sharp. Some corners would be nice.
cp_quarry_a50003.jpg


Also, both enemy spawn doors open to the opposing team. Oops!
cp_quarry_a50004.jpg

cp_quarry_a50005.jpg


The ground is also very flat apart from the occasional dirt ramps. In the outside areas, some variable-level bumpmap grounds would be nice. This area also feels a bit too open and big. Just IMHO.
cp_quarry_a50006.jpg


By the way, I do like how the second capture point leaves the defending team feeling a bit taunted that it's right there but they need to go around to get to it! :p
 
Last edited:

ParanoidDrone

L3: Member
Feb 19, 2009
147
11
Snipping out the pictures for length...

Hey Paranoid! I just did a run thru of your map and here are some of the things I saw...

Starting with the first map:
At the first point near the spawn, players can still jump on the lamps by the spawn gate (At least the one circled in red). Intentional or not? Personally I like it.

Not intentional, I'll need to make them nonsolid...again. (I had a little fiasco where I accidentally backed up the .bsp instead of the .vmf, so I had to decompile it to work on it again, and some stuff got lost in the transition. Like nonsolidity.)

Secondly, I chatted with you before about removing on of these ramps. Preferable the red circled one. The idea of "ramps on the defender's side and no on the attacker's" is common in several of the official maps. I think you said you were planning to.

Being a little nit-picky, the background in the map could use some cleaning up (and I'm sure you will sooner or later).

I remember talking with you about it, but it slipped my mind. You're also the only person to mention anything like that, so while I like the idea, I want to wait to see if anyone else has an opinion on it.

I agree the background areas are very...bare bones, to put it lightly. It's still alpha, so I'm intentionally not putting in a lot of detail yet.

On to map two! One glaring problem is this black hole/gap in the map off the right hand side of the attacker's spawn. It is by the stairs there. As Master Yoda would say, "How embarrassing!"

It looks like a stray nodraw brush. Easy fix.

This drop down area near there could maybe use a spiffy gate or something to spice it up?

It does need some sprucing up and maybe a size increase. I haven't actually tried jumping up, but I can't imagine a 128 square hole can be easy to fit into. I'll make it bigger and see how that goes.

Can player's rocket jump up to this point (circled in red)? I tried and couldn't because the roof or something was blocking me (in blue). When I noclip'd up there all I found was a little room. It looks very enticing and will end up making player's aggravated that it's there but unaccessible.

The playerclipping is on purpose. I should make it more obvious that the ledge is out of bounds, I guess.

The large building here is also not accessible. Intentional? A two-sticky jump or a double rocket jump should get players up there.

Intentional. I'll probably stick a vent or something up there to more clearly mark it as out of bounds.

Things also still look a bit, eh?, sharp. Some corners would be nice.

I have almost no displacements in place yet, which are responsible for creating uneven ground, cliffs, etc. Again, those will go up as the layout becomes more finalized.

Also, both enemy spawn doors open to the opposing team. Oops!

Only those aren't the spawn doors. Head inside a bit more and you'll find the actual resupply room.

The ground is also very flat apart from the occasional dirt ramps. In the outside areas, some variable-level bumpmap grounds would be nice. This area also feels a bit to open and big. Just IMHO.

Again with no displacements. I guess I should start on those. :p

I agree that it's big, but it looked weird when I tried scaling it down considering the size of the props involved. I'm still trying to figure out a happy medium.

By the way, I do like how the second capture point leaves the defending team feeling a bit taunted that it's right there but they need to go around to get to it! :p

I like the idea of letting a player see something that they can't necessarily get to quickly. Not sure why.
 
Last edited:

ParanoidDrone

L3: Member
Feb 19, 2009
147
11
HOLY NECROBUMP BATMAN! I'm back and currently taking bets on how long I'll last until I vanish again for one reason or another. (Not really.)

I've been working on Quarry on and off over the past year in between being lazy and doing nothing and not being lazy and finishing my undergraduate studies. Somewhere along the way I decided Quarry was a lame ass name and decided to call it Launchpad, since the final point would be on one. (This final point does not yet exist. Boo.) Some friends of mine wanted to try it out, which resulted in me taking what I had, switching to a _stagex versioning system, and conducting a few playtests with the folks at Overclocked ReMix.

While I continue to plan, ponder, and procrastinate on making Stage 3, I figured I may as well take what I had (again), switch back to standard versioning, and pick up where I left off here. The cliffs are still free of displacements. Development textures abound. Lazy texture fighting is taking place RIGHT BEFORE YOUR EYES where I know it'll be moot once I make those damn displacements. But maybe I can get some more feedback in the process. Feedback's always good, right?
 

Krowbar

L1: Registered
May 8, 2010
24
0
Done and done! I'll give the new map a lookie either tonight or tomorrow and give you some more of my premiere feedback. :3
EDIT: Wait, what? Necro has been around this thread? All ye who hear, beware of tricky scoots!
 

Krowbar

L1: Registered
May 8, 2010
24
0
Double posting since the last one was a few days ago...
Anyway, I finally got around to looking over the map. Very nice! I'd love to play with the complement of a full server! Can't say that there are any many outstanding flaws. Here's a photo album of screenshots I took. http://imgur.com/a/tyjrb#1mKdw
I love the way you have clear signage all over the place. While the map has many twisty passages you can go through, there are enough big "A->" or <-B" signs around I never felt like I got too lost. A couple areas were still a bit tricky that you could see but not get to. I noticed quite a similar feel in certain areas to existing maps like dustbowl and goldrush. That is a good thing. Cherry picking the better parts of existing maps should be encouraged.
My absolute biggest problem with the map is that it seems that point 2 would be a super easy sniper fest for the attacking team. Do you mean it to be that way? Both defender exits are visible and open for pot shots.
I really, really liked how no area could be completely shut down by a single sentry gun. There were always ways to go around a position to flank. However, some places i thought were problematic i put screenshots for. Also, the whole thing felt it kinda gimped mid-range characters a bit. Don't know how to place my finger on it exactly... Lots of wide doors and super big open areas. Just my 2cents.
EDIT: also I didn't like that outdoor balcony overlooking the quarry. It just didn't seem right. Also I didn't like the house area at the beginning near 1A. Seemed unnecessary a bit. And the fact that the ammo is at the top where the engie nest would probably be... don't make it too easy for them. Some of the building placement seemed out of whack, too. Like "hey, they wouldn't build something right in the edge of a cliff!" and too many sharp angles... but I'm sure you'll get to that later.
Anyway, I am *very* tired now and have work once again in the morning. Good luck and happy mapping. :3
 
Last edited:

Wilson

Boomer by Sleep
aa
May 4, 2010
1,385
1,223
Cherry picking the better parts of existing maps should be encouraged.

Yes, if you want to have tons of unoriginal and boring to play on maps.
Borrowing some certain elements is cool and something we do quite often, cherry picking stuff from different official maps other hand is just way make sure your map is unoriginal and has nothing new to offer for players gameplay or look wise.

Think if Boundary expand from badwater style start and end, and copy best bits of badwater to the map, it wouldn't be nearly as fun and feel like playing Badwater on different setting and few things changed around.
 

Krowbar

L1: Registered
May 8, 2010
24
0
hell to the no

So...

Is Launchpad unoriginal?

Excuse me, I must have just completely failed what I was trying to convey. Cherry picking and copying certain thematic styles and general game mechanics should be encouraged. For example, the way a certain map may lead player flow through the design of the twisty passages, the way a capture point is set up to provide just enough cover for attackers while not offering too much, the way a map offers multiple exit points around an area to avoid a choke, the way a map offers either bends in a road or multiple objects in the way to avoid sheer sniper overuse, the way spawn is set up to make it accessible to the enemy team but not too easy, the way boxes and debris can be set up to provide alternate but higher-cost transportation routes, the way maps are spaced nicely so that soldiers and demos and scouts can take better advantage of their increased mobility, providing walls, ceilings, and panels for demos and soldiers to take advantage of their weapon splash, spacing out the ammo and health boxes so spies can get across a map and so engineers can set up sentries at certain points, the way maps mix short, medium, and long range confrontation zones so certain classes are not completely favored... THAT is what should be copied.
In no ways do I advocate a simple copy-pasta of existing map zones. However, some maps have done some of these things really well and should be considered when making your own map. EVERYTHING is derivative, to some extent. You don't come to mapping with completely 0 knowledge of existing works.
I feel that Launchpad IS original and creative. I apologize if my original comment was misinterpreted.
 
Last edited:

ParanoidDrone

L3: Member
Feb 19, 2009
147
11
After much indecision when trying to decide on a layout, Stage 3 is now fully functional! I never thought I'd see the day. That's pretty much the highlight of this release. In addition, Snipers can no longer jump onto the topmost shipping container at 2B. The large ammo pack at 1B was reduced to a medium and moved slightly. And a few cosmetic changes regarding sign colors.

So, um...I guess the hard part's over now, unless Stage 3 turns out to be a bust and require a complete overhaul. BUT THAT'S WHAT FEEDBACK'S FOR, RIGHT? :O