- Thread starter PlipPlop
- Start date
- Nov 18, 2009
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Yeah, I watched you in the demo, so I clipped 'em. Don't know how I forgot to clip 'em in the first place, but it's done now -- no worries.
WEWANTYOURSOUL
L1: Registered
- Mar 24, 2010
- 4
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Well...we've played this map several times now and will work it into our regular office rotation. I really like the map...although, for the way that my officemates and I play, we find the sniper to be a character to avoid.
Also...the passage to the side (opposite of the healthpack side) seemed to never get any traffic. Was a nice alleyway for spy...but most of the action went straight ahead or over towards the tower/healthpack. Personally, I would like that alleyway to have the stack of boxes removed and a ramp set up so you could go from the alleyway to the platform on the other side of the rocks. Just a personal preference...not sure how much that would screw up the intended gameplay.
Otherwise, excellent map. It's quite fun.
Also...the passage to the side (opposite of the healthpack side) seemed to never get any traffic. Was a nice alleyway for spy...but most of the action went straight ahead or over towards the tower/healthpack. Personally, I would like that alleyway to have the stack of boxes removed and a ramp set up so you could go from the alleyway to the platform on the other side of the rocks. Just a personal preference...not sure how much that would screw up the intended gameplay.
Otherwise, excellent map. It's quite fun.
Played this map a couple of days ago on the EU server and it was fun. Two things I'd like to mention:
- Please clip the top of the tower in the middle because this really can destroy the balance inbetween classes (one class should never have too much of an advantage over another class)
- Those two trees you can see in the first screenshot should have some blockbullet clipping. In one round an engineer built a sentry behind one of those and I was standing underneath the tree...when I moved away the sentry started shooting at me through the tree and I couldn't even see it
Oh, there's one more thing: Maybe add one or two small ammo packs. When playing heavy I had to run all the way back to the spawn to get some resupplies.
- Please clip the top of the tower in the middle because this really can destroy the balance inbetween classes (one class should never have too much of an advantage over another class)
- Those two trees you can see in the first screenshot should have some blockbullet clipping. In one round an engineer built a sentry behind one of those and I was standing underneath the tree...when I moved away the sentry started shooting at me through the tree and I couldn't even see it
Oh, there's one more thing: Maybe add one or two small ammo packs. When playing heavy I had to run all the way back to the spawn to get some resupplies.
- Nov 18, 2009
- 51
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The newest version has the roof clipped.
Thanks for your input on that. I had never thought of that occuring, so I'll jump onto fixing that. Thank you.
I have a few places in mind to set down more ammo packs.
The part about the stack of crates I'm not too sure what it was you were saying, but you are also one of the first to have commented on the stack of crates there. I've sort of placed those crates to eliminate a potentially problematic sightline.
gameday.
Still has some unavoidable sniper lines right outside the spawn.
My framerate got hit pretty hard once I walked outside spawn, If you havent already look into prop fading and some advanced hinting.
It's a good sized arena map, very enjoyable if you survive the initial sharpshooting.
Still has some unavoidable sniper lines right outside the spawn.
My framerate got hit pretty hard once I walked outside spawn, If you havent already look into prop fading and some advanced hinting.
It's a good sized arena map, very enjoyable if you survive the initial sharpshooting.
Sel
Banned
- Feb 18, 2009
- 1,239
- 2,570
- Nov 25, 2008
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Before you make it RC, please optimise! I'm the guy who was complaining about bad FPS on your map, and the response from many people was "Get a better pc" ¬.¬
Even with the areaportals you have, it's drawing many many unneeded props a lot of the time.
Here are some examples with +showbudget to show you how it's using far too much on rendering the props, with and without wireframe.
I'm sure with some clever hinting, skyboxing and areaportalling you could cut that amount down considerably, which is kind of a must if this is going to be RC.
Other than that, I really enjoyed this map, although with the asymmetry of the map, maybe you could make it switch which team you're on each round to balance it out?
Even with the areaportals you have, it's drawing many many unneeded props a lot of the time.
Here are some examples with +showbudget to show you how it's using far too much on rendering the props, with and without wireframe.
I'm sure with some clever hinting, skyboxing and areaportalling you could cut that amount down considerably, which is kind of a must if this is going to be RC.
Other than that, I really enjoyed this map, although with the asymmetry of the map, maybe you could make it switch which team you're on each round to balance it out?
Still, judging by some of the static props being rendered past doorways, it looks like the map could use some more consistant areaportal's.
But the thing is the layout obviously wasn't designed with optimisation in mind, so optimisation will never be excellent without a complete layout change (which probably isn't going to happen at this stage in development). Obviously line of sight has been controlled with props, but not line of sight for vvis.
This map needs more areaportals and possibly even occluders or it will just render excessive amounts of polygons as unfortunately the layout hasn't helped cull poly numbers with walls or corners, everything is open and visible from a large number of places on the map.
The only other thing to say is more detail doesn't mean better detail. deleting a couple high poly models probably wouldn't hurt. Oh, custom fade distances. Set fade distances to as many props as possible (the smaller the prop, the smaller the fade distance), which will mean props don't get rendered until they are closer to players. At first they will look obvious when testing your map on your own before release, but when people are shooting each other they really don't notice. Take the second stage of goldrush as an example, the tracks fade into view right infront of players, but they never notice because they are watching their flanks/shooting targets. Finally, try changing some func_detail into func_lod, which will allow you to set fade distances to smaller detail brush work.
edit: just to summarise:
But the thing is the layout obviously wasn't designed with optimisation in mind, so optimisation will never be excellent without a complete layout change (which probably isn't going to happen at this stage in development). Obviously line of sight has been controlled with props, but not line of sight for vvis.
This map needs more areaportals and possibly even occluders or it will just render excessive amounts of polygons as unfortunately the layout hasn't helped cull poly numbers with walls or corners, everything is open and visible from a large number of places on the map.
The only other thing to say is more detail doesn't mean better detail. deleting a couple high poly models probably wouldn't hurt. Oh, custom fade distances. Set fade distances to as many props as possible (the smaller the prop, the smaller the fade distance), which will mean props don't get rendered until they are closer to players. At first they will look obvious when testing your map on your own before release, but when people are shooting each other they really don't notice. Take the second stage of goldrush as an example, the tracks fade into view right infront of players, but they never notice because they are watching their flanks/shooting targets. Finally, try changing some func_detail into func_lod, which will allow you to set fade distances to smaller detail brush work.
edit: just to summarise:
- more areaportals where ever you can
- occluders to cull objects behind displacements and horizontal corners
- low prop fade distances
- func_lod some func_detail work
- cut unnecassery high poly props, you do have a lot of detail and it wouldn't hurt removing some.
Last edited:
- Nov 25, 2008
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Grazr, just though i'd point out that on that last picture, there are areaportals in all the doorways and they aren't merging. That's what confused me when I saw that area.
But yeah, definitely fade distances and func_lod
But yeah, definitely fade distances and func_lod
- Nov 18, 2009
- 51
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I appreciate the help you guys, I really do.
I'm working on the RC now, doing what I can.
Something on the side:
I was having a discussion earlier with someone about my map and how I felt and everything, and one point that came up was about hydrothunder being released as a beta. I really hope this issue hasn't stopped most people from providing feedback for me, as I really do appreciate the feedback given.
When I started on this map, it was dev-textured, it had its layout issues, but I privately tested the map among friends to get it where it is now, and thankfully, the only issues that have sprung were sightline issues, and of course, optimization issues as well. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I hope releasing my first map publicly as a beta, didn't discourage feedback, or altogether made people turn away and not consider looking at it. I understand people here like getting involved with someone's map, and love to watch the development process. I really just want to make a "light-hearted" release (note the name) to sort of demo my ability to map, and hopefully that's gotten across to some (I feel it has, looking at a lot of the positive feedback).
So, anyway, I really appreciate the help I've gotten from people. I'll be going back to working on optimization again now. :/
I'm working on the RC now, doing what I can.
Something on the side:
I was having a discussion earlier with someone about my map and how I felt and everything, and one point that came up was about hydrothunder being released as a beta. I really hope this issue hasn't stopped most people from providing feedback for me, as I really do appreciate the feedback given.
When I started on this map, it was dev-textured, it had its layout issues, but I privately tested the map among friends to get it where it is now, and thankfully, the only issues that have sprung were sightline issues, and of course, optimization issues as well. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I hope releasing my first map publicly as a beta, didn't discourage feedback, or altogether made people turn away and not consider looking at it. I understand people here like getting involved with someone's map, and love to watch the development process. I really just want to make a "light-hearted" release (note the name) to sort of demo my ability to map, and hopefully that's gotten across to some (I feel it has, looking at a lot of the positive feedback).
So, anyway, I really appreciate the help I've gotten from people. I'll be going back to working on optimization again now. :/
- Nov 25, 2008
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Many people don't really like betas being released first, purely because they'll assume it hasn't been tested at all, and they don't like missing the development stages of maps.
I think the fact that so many props were being drawn shows that when you reach your first beta, you really want to make sure it's optimised as well as it can be, as this is what you're presenting as a fully playable map.
Releasing in beta is generally alright, as long as it it properly gameplay tested a lot before hand
I think the fact that so many props were being drawn shows that when you reach your first beta, you really want to make sure it's optimised as well as it can be, as this is what you're presenting as a fully playable map.
Releasing in beta is generally alright, as long as it it properly gameplay tested a lot before hand
Download link is broken
- Nov 18, 2009
- 51
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So after, I guess, eight months, I'm finally releasing the updated version of this map. If you're wondering why it took so long, it wasn't because I gave up on the map (for whatever reason), but because, in the process of transferring files on my HDD, I lost the SDK file for this map, and at the time, kind of didn't care about mapping. Eventually I went ahead and decompiled the map, and made provisions from where I last left off.
I got a lot of positive feedback about this map, which has given me confidence to continue my map making "career", if you can call it that, so that's another reason for me continuing this, despite it being dead for months and months. I just don't like to leave things unfinished typically, and hopefully I can get a new spark of imagination for my new map, which should come soon.
Hopefully no one freaks out for bumping a practically dead thread, but hey, bump with content.
I got a lot of positive feedback about this map, which has given me confidence to continue my map making "career", if you can call it that, so that's another reason for me continuing this, despite it being dead for months and months. I just don't like to leave things unfinished typically, and hopefully I can get a new spark of imagination for my new map, which should come soon.
Hopefully no one freaks out for bumping a practically dead thread, but hey, bump with content.
I remember many things about this map, especially the loving it part
Some bugs:
missing HDR cubemaps (or they're broken and it's trying to fall back to the LDR ones that seem to be missing; either way, fix it)
what the console had to say about your cubemaps
crates clip into wall
these are really odd shadows; see #1 below the link spam about an article on how to fix
turn the shadows off on those rocks
pipes clipping into wall
odd shadows; again, see #1 below
If you turn the shadows off on the frames, this brush face wont' be black; also, frames are z-fighting
very very very very weird lighting going on here; the spotlights on the catwalks are weird, everything metal is super shiny, and everything else is super dark
pipes lead to...nowhere?
can stand along this ledge
make lamp nonsolid
make siren nonsolid
I'm not sure if this is a model problem or not, but with vcollide_wireframe 1 and r_drawclipbrushes 2 I can see that I should not be able to stand here (I'm standing on literally nothing, same goes for the tree on the other side)
1. YM's lighting compile options article on nodraw.net: link
Some bugs:
missing HDR cubemaps (or they're broken and it's trying to fall back to the LDR ones that seem to be missing; either way, fix it)
what the console had to say about your cubemaps
crates clip into wall
these are really odd shadows; see #1 below the link spam about an article on how to fix
turn the shadows off on those rocks
pipes clipping into wall
odd shadows; again, see #1 below
If you turn the shadows off on the frames, this brush face wont' be black; also, frames are z-fighting
very very very very weird lighting going on here; the spotlights on the catwalks are weird, everything metal is super shiny, and everything else is super dark
pipes lead to...nowhere?
can stand along this ledge
make lamp nonsolid
make siren nonsolid
I'm not sure if this is a model problem or not, but with vcollide_wireframe 1 and r_drawclipbrushes 2 I can see that I should not be able to stand here (I'm standing on literally nothing, same goes for the tree on the other side)
1. YM's lighting compile options article on nodraw.net: link