Rum

There seems to be a general lack of interest here, but I guess I'll post this anyway and ask for opinions. Had a playtest of this on Blueprint and this is what I posted on Playstuff after the test. Any opinions (useful ones) are quite appreciated.

Some general layout idea from the feedback:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A7/RumChanges.png

Few things to explain: Forward spawn exit for blue opens after A is taken.
Forward spawn for Red closes when A is taken.

Changes on B for the fence:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A7/CpBChanges.png

Turn the no man's land for C into a building, the fence is instead a window.

Changes for C with a Blue flank(ish) route and a Red forward exit:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A7/CpCChanges.png

Red's forward exit and blue's flank route both use a walkway that ramps up onto the terrace above. Might enclose it so that the height advantage cannot be over used.

Further changes for C:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A7/CpCChanges2.png

The ramp up to the flank-ish route will have a drop down into the no man's land.

Also, saw some engie build on top of the building in the No Man's Land. First of all: jesus, I tried for hours to do that when I was running around myself. I'm unsure how you did that. Second: Making that whole roof a No Build area. Sorry engies. D:

I know boylee opposes pretty much all of these changes except for the flank route for Blue on B. But they're ideas. I'm not doing them yet. So, let me know what you think (or if you have any better or alternate ideas.) I'd really appreciate any input. I plan on working on this tomorrow.

Leminnes · Aug 1, 2010

A8 and A9 update! (Mostly A9.)

cp_rum_a8:

Added forward spawn for red for CP A. (Obsolete)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A9/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_rum_a90017.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A9/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_rum_a90020.jpg
Added a side path to CP C.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A9/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_rum_a90011.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A9/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_rum_a90009.jpg
Added a flank route for attackers on CP B.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A9/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_rum_a90013.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A9/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_rum_a90026.jpg
Enclosed CP C.
Added elevated flank route to CP C.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A9/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_rum_a90023.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A9/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_rum_a90002.jpg
Rum is now at night!
Added a bunch of lights because of the above.

Moved the blue spawn exit close to A closer to CP A.

cp_rum_a9:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A9/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_rum_a90007.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A9/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_rum_a90006.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A9/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_rum_a90033.jpg
Moved the forward red spawn farther back.
Added a second exit to the forward red spawn.
Made the spawn time for red on CP A a bit longer (20 sec -> 26 sec)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A9/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_rum_a90031.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A9/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_rum_a90032.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A9/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_rum_a90030.jpg
Added playstuff posters

Made spawn time after CP B is called shorter for both Red and Blue. (18 sec for red, 10 sec for blue.)
Added more lights.
Fixed some clipping issues.

(Sorry for some cubemaps and HUDs on some of the images.)

lana · Aug 1, 2010

Hey guys just in case you didn't know this map is under construction.

Do you really need to have so many overlays just for that purpose? Wouldn't one in the spawn be enough?

Leminnes · Aug 1, 2010

Nerdboy said:
Hey guys just in case you didn't know this map is under construction.

Do you really need to have so many overlays just for that purpose? Wouldn't one in the spawn be enough?

Haha. Was sort of an in-joke with the playstuff guys. They asked me to add them, and I overdid it on purpose. I'll likely tone it down in later releases.

I'm sure you can cope.

Leminnes · Aug 6, 2010

Quick mini-release of A9a. I didn't change much, just made it a bit easier for attackers to attack.

Also made the map brighter in general and removed the one way doors by A. They just served to be annoying.

Changelog, for those curious:

cp_rum_a9a:
Brightened the map.
Shortened Blue's Spawn Time all around.
Shortened the capture time on CP A to 12 seconds.
Made the one-way doors by A two-way.
Slightly increased the spawn time of Red during CP B.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A9/A9a/cp_rum_a9a.bsp.bz2

Leminnes · Aug 8, 2010

A10 is out! Good changes in this one, me thinks. Lots of stuff I've been meaning to do but been pushing back from laziness.

Change log, screens, and DL are all changed to reflect the update.

Removed almost all the curves from the map.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A10/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_rum_a100003.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A10/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_rum_a100019.jpg
The hallway to CP C has been redone.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A10/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_rum_a100021.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A10/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_rum_a100002.jpg
The walkway above the Hallway to C has been redone as well.

Greatly optimized parts.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A10/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_rum_a100013.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A10/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_rum_a100012.jpg
Redid red forward spawn.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A10/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_rum_a100018.jpg
Changed the lighting.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A10/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_rum_a100026.jpg
Made the set-up door by CP C open all the time on the defender's side.

Leminnes · Aug 10, 2010

I'm about to go to sleep, but I'll post some updates of what I've done today:

And for some nostalgia, a bit of what A1 looked like for comparison

Edit: I also added a thanks for the main post for those who I believe helped me the most along the way.

Ginger · Aug 11, 2010

Leminnes · Aug 11, 2010

I appreciate you critiquing my textures, but you realize this is an Alpha, right? I'll change those things, but in Alpha they really don't matter much.

Ginger · Aug 11, 2010

I know ^^ it;s a good map, but just making sure they get attended to

Mr.Blob · Aug 11, 2010

Well, I got lost everywhere. Needs more signs. - A lot of us couldn't even find cap A as Red.

Leminnes · Aug 11, 2010

Mr.Blob said:
Well, I got lost everywhere. Needs more signs. - A lot of us couldn't even find cap A as Red.

I honestly don't understand this. Red's forward spawn is right above A and there's signs everywhere (in fact, I hate that there's signs everywhere and feel like it's a crutch.) What did you do?

Spawn:

Left Exit:

Follow that sign, brings you right to A:

Follow right exit to the dropdown:

Follow that sign right to A:

I'm not really sure how I could get less complicated than that.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the feed back. I guess I just need more advice than "add more signs" when it seems to me I have plenty.

DaBeatzProject · Aug 11, 2010

It had a lot of signs.

The problem with this map was, in my eyes, that there were no real "BIG" or "MAIN" entrances to control point areas. Right now you have 2 entrances to B I know of (and if there are more, that's not my fault, but the map's layout) and they are both tiny and really hidden. I was using the left entrance for most of the time playing, until I found the other one while being lost and wandering around in the map. And C is "okay" but still has some problems with tiny doorways and passages. There was basically, no flow at all. It was more of a big search.

Karnage · Aug 11, 2010

Routes from spawn to capture points weren't obvious enough I thought. DaBeatzProject basically summed up why

Geal · Aug 11, 2010

There was no flow. You have tons of signs to try and make up for bad layout. The players need to gradually flow from one area to the next just by running away from spawn. The map is full of windy paths and overly complex geometry. Signs should nudge the player in the right direction, let them know "okay, this path leads to B." In this map, you have to pay attention to the signs exclusively in order to find out where to go - you can't just run in a general direction of the point and eventually wind up there.

And even with all the signs, I found myself wandering around until I found where the next point was for a while. It should be STUPIDLY easy to find points, players should NOT have to search for them, because players will be worrying about much more immediate threats.

A great example of how confusing the layout is is blu spawn: there's no main exit. One exit is a giant ramp which is awkward to run up, and the other is a twisty turny path that makes the player do like two 180s. Why make it so complicated? Why not just have a door leading out and two doors on the side? The entire map is like this - complicated layout for no real reason, no real direction, and no flow. You REALLY need to rework the paths between the areas, and probably the areas themselves. We didn't really have a lot of serious battles, most of the time it was just players wandering around wondering where point B is and is this point C and oh look there's a vent i didn't know that wait why can't i continue through it and OH GOD THAT'S THE ENEMY SPAWN ROOM.

Also, you don't really need the big signs telling people the map is under construction - the "_a10" in the name does that. But those signs have always been a personal pet peeve of mine so whatever.

Leminnes · Aug 11, 2010

I'm aware of bluespawn's complexity, I'm already reworking that in A11. As for the other complaints of the maziness of the map, I, unfortunately, feel like I'm at the point I can do very little to change that. It's a mixture of working on the map for 5 months and feeling like it's reached a point that the layout is as close to final as I'm willing to make it and a lack of ideas to make the layout have better flow.

Of course, if you have ideas, I'd appreciate them. So, yeah.

Edit: One idea was to make Red's spawn during CP A turn into Blue's spawn after CP A is capped for the rest of the map.

Ravidge · Aug 11, 2010

EDIT: woah, I left the thread open and went away.. and then when I finally post, everything had already been said...

Sorry but this map was frustrating to play.
Your signs doesn't help, the map is just too jumbled with too many turns, doorways, twists. The gameflow is 0. The texturing is adding to the confusion.

It's hard to explain but:
A lot of good maps are predictable (layout wise), a player is able to look at a building and make a good guess as to where it leads just from the outside. Someone should be able to find the way up on a ledge by guessing where the stairs/ramp to it is.
With clever highlighting and detail you can make these important areas/doorways/spots pop out from the background.

There is nothing like that in this map, I found myself walking in random directions appearing suddenly somewhere and thinking: "This isn't where I wanted to go, why am I here?"

With the complicated layout comes the many signs, which are of little help. Most of the time they were steering me through doorways that I otherwise would have assumed to lead somewhere else, so I was very confused when they didn't and I had to make a mental note of that.. basically the word I'm looking for is unintuitive (I think?)
People are probably going to suggest you add more signs because they are lost, but even more signs wont make a difference, the problem lies in the layout.

To fix this would require massive work (basically remaking all of the paths between points) and I'm pretty sure you don't want to so I guess this post is a waste of time

Godslayer57 · Aug 11, 2010

I agree with posts above me. Even with the signs I still got lead in circles and backwards. The map felt more like a maze and some of the textures felt like they they were just placed there for no reason. Which made the map even more confuzing. Now I am confused just talking about it.

Leminnes · Aug 11, 2010

Ravidge said:
There is nothing like that in this map, I found myself walking in random directions appearing suddenly somewhere and thinking: "This isn't where I wanted to go, why am I here?"

With the complicated layout comes the many signs, which are of little help. Most of the time they were steering me through doorways that I otherwise would have assumed to lead somewhere else

Do you have any examples?

And I already did a lot of reworking of the paths between the points, I'm not opposed to that. I just need suggestions.

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