Runoff

Nineaxis

Quack Doctor
aa
May 19, 2008
1,767
2,820
Nine delivers.

runoff_building_fixed.jpg
 

Nineaxis

Quack Doctor
aa
May 19, 2008
1,767
2,820
Progress shot from a while ago, working on making the alpha paint not suck.

koth_runoff_a4_20000.jpg
 

Languid

L5: Dapper Member
Oct 9, 2009
240
256
Messing with it.

koth_runoff_a4_30008.jpg

Better already, but you need to go further with it. Change the rock texture into the redder version of the current one, It'll look much less busy with white and red as opposed to white and orange
 
Sep 12, 2008
1,272
1,141
Those rocks make me go DOfghfwklgjh wckgjh< gjkh wfgù<hg kjfhg! Please consider changing their skin/shape/whatever. just change them.
 

lana

Currently On: ?????
aa
Sep 28, 2009
3,075
2,778
Where does the waterfall go? It just pours out onto random ground.
 

Void

Local Man Unable To Map, Sources Say
aa
Sep 14, 2008
1,865
2,972
And it doesn't have any functionality besides blocking a sightline ever so slightly.

If its runoff, it shouldn't be a straight drop for the water, it should be angled just minutely. So instead of this, you have this, which leaks down to the edge of the cliff through cracks in the ground as this.
 

Nineaxis

Quack Doctor
aa
May 19, 2008
1,767
2,820
I've got a few ideas for the waterfall, don't worry. ;)

AND more progress on making it not ugly.

koth_runoff_a4_30011.jpg
 

grazr

Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle
aa
Mar 4, 2008
5,441
3,814
I feel like the ground should be gravelly. Generally the combination of freezing and blistering heat cracks rocks, causing large amounts of rubble.

Additionally, runoff implies a glacial source of water. I only mention this because alpine regions are dark grey because of volcanic and metamophic rocks (where glaciers are more likely to form, less likely at the equator where red iron rich deserts occur). Meaning I would expect a map called runoff to utilise the alpine/snow theme. Not desert/snow.

You are of course under no obligations to change the name but some alternatives you might consider might include:

Monadnock: An isolated hill or mountain rising above a peneplain.

Wadi: A steep-sided valley containing an intermittent stream in an arid region.

edit: I really would suggest Wadi as it fits your map perfectly, but it appears there are already 2 incomplete maps on the site with that name.
 

Nineaxis

Quack Doctor
aa
May 19, 2008
1,767
2,820
... Additionally, runoff implies a glacial source of water ...

Or what happens when large amounts of snow melt. Which is the theme I'm going for. Snow is melting, causing the water runoff (which provides a source of the waterfall and such).

But flame named the map, and I'm against changing the map's name for the sake of everyone knowing the map as Runoff right now. It's also easy to spell and remember, as opposed to more obscure things like Monadnock (I don't want to see a server full of people trying to suggest that be played next) or Wadi.
 

grazr

Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle
aa
Mar 4, 2008
5,441
3,814
After playing the map just a second ago i found a number of class imbalances including almost no benefits for engineer unless utilising the wrangler and an over powering of the pyro class. I suppose it's no surprise that the pyro would be suggested as OP given the death pit residing on one whole side of the map, but any single air blast can knock a medium wieght class from the centre of the map over the edge, and 2 airblasts for soldier and heavy. Any class that can 1 shot players in reflex, including ubers, should be re-considered significantly.

Most other classes are balanced though there is an impartiality for scout and soldier. This was not exactly my observation at first but definately something that got mentioned by others several times in the server. Heavy has his place at times but gets focus fired by soldier and demos holding the ledges and spies flanking from the low ground. This isn't so much of an imbalance as it is an observation but if i were to list imbalances it would go

Pyro OP
Scout OP
Heavy UP
engi UP

The lower flank to high ground really needs to get player clipped at the slope to main arena; many deaths were as a result of needlessly getting stuck at that slope top, having to jump up to the main area. Especially as scout.

Considering the map further, Spy gameplay was repetative, as was medic; and who ever held the middle continued to control the map for extended periods of time. Normally a fresh spawn wave pushed through the remaining players but sometimes remaining soldiers, demos and spies could hold a team back for as good as 90 seconds through skirmish tactics. This could be considered standard gameplay for the map but a team that backed up remaining falling back players could control the map a singificant amount of time. This is quite frustrating for the assaulting team as even if they faught back and controlled the map they would easily get back capped at 0 seconds.

The map seemed completely revolved around hit and run tactics, which completely contrasts KoTH style gameplay. As a KoTH point usually gets capped several times in a round. Not once or twice.
 
Last edited:

Flame

aa
Jul 19, 2009
368
865

Wrong, the waterfall now extinguishes players and pyros the easiest class to kill regardless so no.


Welcome to TF2


This is pretty false. There are more than enough health packs as well as more than enough cover for heavies to do fine. not to mention who cares if you underpower heavies since theyre powerful to begin with


again who cares, fck engis.


Considering the map further, Spy gameplay was repetative, as was medic; and who ever held the middle continued to control the map. Normally a fresh spawn wave pushed through the remaining players but sometimes remaining soldiers, demos and spies could hold a team back for as good as 90 seconds through skirmish tactics. This could be considered standard gameplay for the map but a team that backed up remaining falling back players could control the map a singificant amount of time. This is quite frustrating for the assaulting team as even if they faught back and controlled the map they would easily get back capped at 0 seconds. Cheating deserving teams out of winning.

The map seemed completely revolved around hit and run tactics, which completely contrasts KoTH style gameplay.

you obviously have never played viaduct
 
Mar 23, 2010
1,872
1,696
it felt a little wide to me. if an engy can walk all the way across unnoticed and set up a sentry at your spawn........

i always took the lower route. it might be because: 1. its closer to spawn. theres basically 2 doors and i'd have to turn back into the middle taking more time. viaduct has the same thing basically. 2. it connects to the other side of the map, unlike the upper route. 3. it has the most cover.

never got knocked into a deathpit yay
 
Last edited:

grazr

Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle
aa
Mar 4, 2008
5,441
3,814
Wrong, the waterfall now extinguishes players and pyros the easiest class to kill regardless so no.

I never said pyro's were OP because of their general combat style, i said they were OP because you can airblast anyone from the middle of the map over the edge into the death pit. This is an important observation for a number of reasons. Try reading the contents of a post before you reply to it in blind defence with irrelavent points.

The map is just one giant skirmish which aids the pyro's (and scouts) tactics, so no, it's not so simple killing pyro's. At least not for anyone who isn't the infamous Flame, and certainly not against a player who knows how to play pyro properly.

Plenty of occasions i ran into a pyro from around a corner and was reflex airblasted to my death (at full health, which was the frustrating part). This was my experience. Head it as you will. I don't care if you ignore it, but there's no need to be so aggressively defencive.

This is pretty false. There are more than enough health packs as well as more than enough cover for heavies to do fine. not to mention who cares if you underpower heavies since theyre powerful to begin with

Again, read the post before getting butt hurt and defensive about flaws in your maps design. The map doesn't favour heavies because they are flanked at every position (except maybe the cliff top). Not because there is supposedly a "lack" of health packs. Which i never mentioned. Is this even a relavent arguement considering most heavies pack the sandwhich and/or a medic?

again who cares, fck engis.

Don't be so naive

you obviously have never played viaduct

I really don't know how to respectively respond to your posts Flame. They are neither constructive or helpful. For someone who generally dishes out abusive feedback you sure can't take a polite "this map isn't perfect".

Your constant "who cares" deflections get old and are counter intuitive to the level design process. Be thankful that Nine is doing this project for you because it would go no where without someone who understands compromise and the design process.
 
Last edited:

Cerious

L420: High Member
Aug 10, 2008
455
133
It's been a long time since I've posted screenshots and actual criticism in map threads. I hope this is a trend that I start to get back into.

1.
kothrunoffa30006.jpg


These death cliffs, they feel really unnecessary. It'd just be infuriating to come out of my spawn and get airblasted or knocked off the cliff - it'd feel like a cheap death. Even if you want to have it so that it can fit in thematically with the map, you could always just fence it off with a body-height fence - it'd get the message across and still allow players to look out.

2.
kothrunoffa30004.jpg


Make this entire area ramped. Dunno why it isn't.

3.
kothrunoffa30001.jpg


Mildly frustrating - it might have been said before, but I'll just repeat it because I definitely noticed it.

edit: Ah, you're fixing it - just noticed in the screenshot. Ah well, I'll leave the image in anyways because of Shaq.

4.
kothrunoffa30002.jpg


About the engineer... I really felt that engineer was great on this map with the Wrangler and not fun at all without. This was definitely a powerful spot for a sentry with the wrangler, since you have all of that area to look down on, and you get a perfect view of the house and most of the area inside of it.

5.
kothrunoffa30005.jpg


This is one of the very, very few spots where a sentry would be viable without being guided by a wrangler. Because of the map's lack of sentry spots where I could just drop my sentry, have it be useful, and walk around and fight the other team, I felt like I had to constantly babysit my sentry and use the wrangler - not much fun for me. Maybe you should add some engineer spots that aren't able to be easily taken down by just walking backwards a bit and shooting?

Can't wait to get a reply from Flame saying that engineer sucks and that it's good that they're underpowered - I mean, it's not like anyone actually plays that class, or uses it.

Also, the map in general felt very similar to Viaduct. There's the control point on the hill that ramps up like that, the rocks that split the main pathway up in two, the areas that overlook the point (pic 4). Doesn't mean that it's bad, but I always like seeing new designs that work in maps.

Shaq is always relevant.
 
Last edited: