F.A.Q.: TF2Maps.net Mapping Contest #5

Would adding in a prop near one of the capture points that could potentially be used as cover during firefights be intrusive to the current game play of the map? Or would it fall under merely detailing the map? Sorry if i'm posting this in the wrong thread, though not sure where else to ask.

What do we do with the gigantic grey blocks? Do we just leave them?

Reactor said:

What do we do with the gigantic grey blocks? Do we just leave them?

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You mean the ones near blue spawn?

Well there is one big block between blu spawn and point A that's going to be a little troublesome because it's too thin to be a building or a cliff or anything that big, really, but well, there are other workarounds that should do the trick. Then there is the massive block that covers redspawn, and points A and C. I'd say it looks like Valve probably had a pretty good idea of how they were going to detail it when they made the layout. Looks like it could have been a quarry or something else mining-related.

What's important is that what is solid remains solid, and if you don't want to kill performances, what's visblocking should also remain visblocking. A skybrush fulfills both conditions.

So far I'm still struggling to find a theme that I could master well enough, is not too common, and works well with the entirety of the layout... :/

Would Soundscapes and things like that fall under detailing, or is this strictly cosmetic?

Porkchop said:

Would Soundscapes and things like that fall under detailing, or is this strictly cosmetic?

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You're building the map as if it were a final release. Soundscapes would definitely be a part of the this process.

Knight-Errant said:

You're building the map as if it were a final release. Soundscapes would definitely be a part of the this process.

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Alright, just checking to make sure

Swamp question should be added to da FAQ.

Will winner get Golden Wrench?

FaTony said:

Will winner get Golden Wrench?

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lol lol lol lol no.

I want to know how far we can go as far as adjusting stuff like this:



A ramp that doesn't go all the way up to the top, covered with a playerclip that does, leading to a ledge that's uneven for no apparent reason, awkwardly adjoining another one that is even. I get the feeling there was a point to this when it was detailed, but I can't for the life of me imagine what it is or how to work around it without tweaking the brushes.

We need clarification on the rules regarding the layout. The rules say:

The layout of the map must remain the same.

And that's it. Keeping the layout the same is extremely vague as everyone have different definitions of layout. Most questions people ask, are simply answered by "If it doesn't affect the gameplay in a significant way, it's allowed". I think this is the problem, because it doesn't answer the question.
For example:

Q: Am I allowed to add cover?
A: If it doesn't affect the gameplay in a significant way, it's allowed

Now the reason this doesn't answer the question is because everyone interprets "affect the gameplay" diffently, and "significant" doesn't have the same magnitude for everyone. How big can the cover be? Can I place it so that the pathing will be slightly altered?

The questions are endless really, and none are properly answered.
Am I allowed to extend a part of a building so that it sticks out a bit into a gameplay area?
Am I allowed to change a stairway to a ramp?
Am I allowed to move a doorway 32 units to the side?
Am I allowed to change the orientation of this entrance/exit?
Am I allowed to remove the heightened area inside the B building?
Am I allowed to reshape the geometry that control point C is on?
Am I allowed to move this pickup to the other side of the room?

But I guess the answer is the same for all of the above.

How far is enough to affect the gameplay? Will a change that is large enough to allow a player to hide behind something be too large? After a change it's harder for red soldiers to rocketjump, is that too much of a gameplay change?

You might say that it's about taking risks or playing it safe, but interpreting rules correctly isn't the point of this contest. Since this contest will be judged by TF2 maps admins is hosted by TF2maps, it would be really helpful if the admins could point at some concrete examples and say "This is allowed, this is not allowed". I highly recommend adding screenshot series with different magnitudes of the same alteration, which tell you where it goes too far and why.

We really need clear rules for this contest, especially since this is supported by Valve. If someone is unable to detail the map to the extent that they would like simply because they thought the rules were restricting them, it's really bad. Especially if someone who altered the map to a larger degree wins. People are going to be really pissed off if this happens, and it's the admins' job to make sure it doesn't. Let people know when they have gone too far. Right now members are doing it, according to their interpretations of the rules.

For example:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2347130/artpass_aly/devshots/bluewaypoint_02.png
I think this removes an entire forward base for an engineer. First, he could set up in the corner with a teleporter and a sentry and be safe. With that change, any demo can shoot through the window and be sure to hit something.

Another is this:
http://uppix.net/3/d/7/84bc0e56e525e1712fe97601a3ebd.jpg
This alters the entire sightline and gameplay. Is that too far, or still in bounds?

I picked both those screenshots just because I had them open, I am not accusing any mapper of anything. Both explanations are only MY opinion.
What I would like to know is: Who will judge what is right and wrong? Because it has to be 1 person and 1 judgement on anything. Can't have 3 admins saying different things about the same problem.

It's so troublesome because each concept needs to be taken on a case be case basis, because there are just too many variables to specify what results would be acceptable in general.

There is no general.

Moving a door at one location by 32 HU will have more or less of an impact than moving a door elsewhere by 32 HU.

I don't think it's bad to improve the map though, there are some nasty sightlines there.

Acegikmo said:

Since this contest will be judged by TF2 maps admins

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the contest page said:

The winner, decided by the TF2 team at Valve

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:facepalm:

A Boojum Snark said:

:facepalm:

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That wasn't the point of the post and my statements still stand. Could you try and take this seriously?

Here's my look at it from the outside.

Theres gonna be like 10 maps that are obviously better than all the rest, than probably of those 10, 5 of them will be even better than the lower five, and itll come down to maybe 2 or 3 obvious clear-cut winners.

I dont think valve's gonna disqualify you for slightly editing the width and height of some walls doorways and platforms.

I would not remove anything. Don't delete any brushes since that just sounds like a terrible idea from someone who isn't even doing the contest. Luckily zpq had a very strict ruleset...not

I'm fairly certain at the end of the contest, the winner will have moved some doors, or extended some brushes and you'll all be like WTF RULES SAID WE COULDNT and throw a massive hissy fit like a bunch of you do at the end of contests as is...

dont delete shit, and dont let heyo win

love flame.

Acegikmo said:

That wasn't the point of the post and my statements still stand. Could you try and take this seriously?

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My point was that we're not sure where these rules come from, or if the TF2M people can actually answer these questions rather than having to forward them to Valve (which would take time, valve time). So who one thinks is judging and making the rules matters there.

However, I am aware it wasn't the point, but there isn't a lot I (or anyone) can say on the subject that hasn't already been said. Sure, we all agree that more explanation of what is altered would be good to have. What's there to discuss?

What there is to discuss? For one thing: Who will take charge? Wouldn't want this to end up like the ctf contest.
For example, who will take charge? Valve can't, for obvious reasons, but who then? zpq seems like an obvious choice to me, but someone needs to make sure that there is a line that cannot be crossed.