- Nov 12, 2007
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f4a
- Thread starter Flame
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Absolutely, but there's no reason to be rude about it. There's no reason you can't speak your mind and be polite and respectful about it. There's a difference between constructive and destructive criticism.
nik
L12: Fabulous Member
- Aug 14, 2009
- 987
- 564
Yes, it is true that:
It's also true that:
I dunno, just my 2 cents.
- Flame can be somewhat offensive
- He is very good at TF2
- He is somewhat intimidating
It's also true that:
- A moderator should never have the first and last qualities from the above list
- If Flame were to become staff, he would need to change his attitude and method of communication
- If Flame were to become staff, I would forsee more stuff getting done
I dunno, just my 2 cents.
I notion you to do the same. Isn't there a SUPERIOR UBER LEET COMPETITIVE PLAYOFF ESEA-O LOWER BRACKET MATCH to play?
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- Apr 19, 2009
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Alright I am going to put my foot down and hopefully address some of the er "problems."
#1: Flame unbalances tests
Alright this has /some/ truth to it. Flame after all is a comp player and is a dam good one at that. However he is not the only "unbalancing" player on the server. So let me list off the "pro" TF2Maps players:
Ravidge: Fucking crazy good sniper
Rexy: Also a dam good sniper
Snacks: Pub-stomping Heavy
Psy: Another dam good heavy
Supertoaster: "Original" team unbalancer
Flame: Too pro for proness
Nineaxis: Pro as hell medic
TMP: Pro pyro (When his internet is working)
Moose: Fuck you Moose stop killing me
Beatz: He crockets my face. :<
All I am trying to say here is that Flame is good at TF2 and bitching about it is not going to change it. However, it will make him less likely to give you feedback... oh look point 2!
#2: Flame does not give enough/bad feedback
This also is bullshit. Look at Coldfront, Wildfire, Fusion, and all the other maps flame gave feedback on. Yeah those maps sucked didn't they? Hell even Assembly would have gone further down the shit slope if flame had not slapped me across the face. Yes I know that it stings with anyone starts yelling "This map blows move onto the next one" However, I take some comfort in knowing that its someone who knows what they are talking about. And then we are on point 3, his "rage."
#3: Flame is a jerk
Flame has an ego, thats just who he is. Yes its annoying to some when he yells something like "Get raped!" or what not but thats why TF2 has the mute function. Flame is like that asshole teacher you had in high-school. The one that was a jerk but knows what they are talking about and kicks you in the ass every day because they really care about you.
In closing Flame is a rare treat; he not only is a comp player who can get things done but he also loves customs and gives some badass feedback. So should he be a mod? I could care less really, thats up to drp to figure out when he posts the good old help wanted sign the door. Until then this is all and will continue to be just a monkey shit fest.
#1: Flame unbalances tests
Alright this has /some/ truth to it. Flame after all is a comp player and is a dam good one at that. However he is not the only "unbalancing" player on the server. So let me list off the "pro" TF2Maps players:
Ravidge: Fucking crazy good sniper
Rexy: Also a dam good sniper
Snacks: Pub-stomping Heavy
Psy: Another dam good heavy
Supertoaster: "Original" team unbalancer
Flame: Too pro for proness
Nineaxis: Pro as hell medic
TMP: Pro pyro (When his internet is working)
Moose: Fuck you Moose stop killing me
Beatz: He crockets my face. :<
All I am trying to say here is that Flame is good at TF2 and bitching about it is not going to change it. However, it will make him less likely to give you feedback... oh look point 2!
#2: Flame does not give enough/bad feedback
This also is bullshit. Look at Coldfront, Wildfire, Fusion, and all the other maps flame gave feedback on. Yeah those maps sucked didn't they? Hell even Assembly would have gone further down the shit slope if flame had not slapped me across the face. Yes I know that it stings with anyone starts yelling "This map blows move onto the next one" However, I take some comfort in knowing that its someone who knows what they are talking about. And then we are on point 3, his "rage."
#3: Flame is a jerk
Flame has an ego, thats just who he is. Yes its annoying to some when he yells something like "Get raped!" or what not but thats why TF2 has the mute function. Flame is like that asshole teacher you had in high-school. The one that was a jerk but knows what they are talking about and kicks you in the ass every day because they really care about you.
In closing Flame is a rare treat; he not only is a comp player who can get things done but he also loves customs and gives some badass feedback. So should he be a mod? I could care less really, thats up to drp to figure out when he posts the good old help wanted sign the door. Until then this is all and will continue to be just a monkey shit fest.
As I said in my earlier reply, I have not caught flame being specifically rude to anyone.
How people takes his blunt criticism is up to the individual. It's possible they see it as destructive, but that is not Flame's problem.
Being able to handle all form of critique is something you have to learn when doing any kind of artistic work, including mapping.
Pc_Madness
L4: Comfortable Member
- Aug 31, 2009
- 164
- 51
All the scramble methods aren't working on the server. (well, the EU at least, not sure about the new one)
This. Basically.
I'm also pretty neutral about the whole 'issue'. Flame, your feedback is very good. There's no denying that. But a lot of people here don't see that because sometimes your feedback is very blunt. I know that some people take constructive criticism too seriously but sometime the critic is also in the wrong. I've seen you multiple times on servers simply saying the map sucks and that we should change it, but I've rarely actually seen/heard you tell the mapper specifically what to improve (this includes posting feedback on the map threads after the testing is over). My point it that while your feedback is usually useful, the way you say it and the way your voice gets swallowed by the endless rambling of other players (myself included) on the server makes it a bit hard for people to notice your feedback or acknowledge it. The feedback you give through PM's or on steam chat is probably great. Maybe you can take it outside the inbox (outbox?) and post it on the map thread without the user asking. Like grazr and other people I forgot.
As for the playtests. Flame generally doesn't unbalance them any more than Ravidge, Snacks, Blobb or any other good players do. People usually tend to focus on the top players and forget that team stacking takes a team. Usually team stacking happens when people of a lower skill level join a team with good players instead of the other team. I admit I do this sometimes, because nobody likes losing. Maybe if we 'build' the teams a bit more evenly the tests can turn out to be balanced and fun for everyone. I'll try from now on. Of course, this could all be avoided if the damn scramble plugin worked.
It's 5:16 AM and I'm tired so forgive me for any idiocy in this post.
If you've gone through an academic college level degree where you face artistic criticism every day of your life, like I did, you would know the difference between when someone is giving good criticism and when someone is not. And it gets even worse in graduate school. If any of you think for a minute that the kind of criticism you're receiving from Flame isn't destructive, you haven't really understood criticism.
- Apr 19, 2009
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Made a few edits and since this thread is going so dam fast I am just going to repost the hole thing
- Nov 12, 2007
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Hi. I've gone through an academic college level degree where I face artistic criticism every day of my life, and I'm calling bullshit on you right here, right now. Spend four years in an art program and you learn that "constructive" refers to the content of the criticism, not its delivery. If you can't see the forest for the trees, that's your problem, and you're going to suffer as an artist because you miss valid points.
I knew you'd chime in on this. But I disagree. The 'constructive' can also be the delivery as well as the content. I'm sorry you had to call bullshit, I know you'll disagree with me regardless. You and I have already done this dance.
- Apr 14, 2009
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9:27 PM - Rexy: Super, I'm sorry dude
9:27 PM - Rexy: it's really hard to keep you on my friends list when you act the way you do
9:27 PM - Rexy: no hard feelings man
9:27 PM - Rexy: see you around
Honestly? Do you really get that emotionally hurt because of an argument? I try to be friends with everyone, only hate people based on personal experiences and not because someone wants me too.
Everything makes sense now. You overreact too much rexy and you hold grudges too long. You're stretching the truth of what flame really does and who he is because you have a grudge against him.
You don't understand the concept of arguments apparently. People disagree with eachother, but that doesn't mean both sides have to hate eachother in every aspect.
But now I'm glad you removed me, I do not need soccer moms on my friends list. You have a huge "Feel sympathetic for me" sign on you and try to create situations just so people will.
Flame and mod being in the same sentence would never have been an issue if you didn't overreact. I attempted to take you seriously in this issue until you started acting like a baby
9:27 PM - Rexy: it's really hard to keep you on my friends list when you act the way you do
9:27 PM - Rexy: no hard feelings man
9:27 PM - Rexy: see you around
Honestly? Do you really get that emotionally hurt because of an argument? I try to be friends with everyone, only hate people based on personal experiences and not because someone wants me too.
Everything makes sense now. You overreact too much rexy and you hold grudges too long. You're stretching the truth of what flame really does and who he is because you have a grudge against him.
You don't understand the concept of arguments apparently. People disagree with eachother, but that doesn't mean both sides have to hate eachother in every aspect.
But now I'm glad you removed me, I do not need soccer moms on my friends list. You have a huge "Feel sympathetic for me" sign on you and try to create situations just so people will.
Flame and mod being in the same sentence would never have been an issue if you didn't overreact. I attempted to take you seriously in this issue until you started acting like a baby
- Nov 12, 2007
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- 746
Your grudgemongering is too pathetic to call a dance, unless you consider facepalming a dance move.
Serious: When did people go spectator because they didn't want to face flame? That is just an outright made up lie.[/QUOTE said:
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