Designing a middle CP

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Ninjilla

L420: High Member
Sep 13, 2008
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So I am interested in making a 5CP map, but I am getting mindblocked hard. I was wondering what tips there are for designing a mid CP that has push-type gameplay in mind, everything I am drawing out either works for KOTH or borrows too heavily from other maps for my tastes. I guess what I am asking for is, when designing for a 5CP mid point, what general stuff should I be keeping in mind in regards to attack/defense of mid, and pushing onto 2nd/4th?
 

Icarus

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Sep 10, 2008
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-2.5 routes (2 main, 1 side)
-Large, visible, and raised capture area
-Long capture times
-Lots of health + ammo (no fulls)
 

Ninjilla

L420: High Member
Sep 13, 2008
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Ah thanks Icarus, any other general layout tips? I sadly dont get to play TF2 all too much, so me going through a lot of 5 CP games isnt so easy for me. :(
 

HeaH

L8: Fancy Shmancy Member
Oct 2, 2008
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102
Have some kind of height differences. Flat maps = boring
 

Boylee

pew pew pew
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Apr 29, 2008
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-2.5 routes (2 main, 1 side)
-Large, visible, and raised capture area
-Long capture times
-Lots of health + ammo (no fulls)

You know you're a pro mapper when you have bullet lists for CP requirements.
You know, I'd actually love to see checkpoint lists of recommendations like this for a variety of map types, just to compare and contrast.
 

Ninjilla

L420: High Member
Sep 13, 2008
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I thought about making a topic like that, it would be interesting to see which modes share certain layout elements and differences with just general points.
 

Passerby

L2: Junior Member
Mar 27, 2010
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a lot of what icuras said your going to want to raised up so that spam just roll's off, 2 main routes for each team to approach it than some smaller side routes.

have a good amount of cover so snipers cant drop people of the route 1 by 1 should make is so that the people really need to push right onto the point to get the opposing team off it you dont want it easy for the point to just get spammed or sniped
 

Waster

L1: Registered
Jun 28, 2009
20
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-2.5 routes (2 main, 1 side)
-Large, visible, and raised capture area
-Long capture times
-Lots of health + ammo (no fulls)

That 2.5 rule is new for me, but its really true when looking at badlands, granary and well. But Yukon fails horribly, because it only has one main route and the capture point is in the middle of a pit. Though, on the valve maps there are only 2 medium ammopacks and 2 medium healthpacks and 2 small healthpacks. So i dont think the lots of health/ammo is true.
 

Ninjilla

L420: High Member
Sep 13, 2008
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The 2.5 rule is great for any map

True, but the bullets list would be interesting. Like, points with general rules that would show differences in making a mid point for 5CP vs a point for KOTH. Stuff like that.

I like bullet lists. A lot.
 

HeaH

L8: Fancy Shmancy Member
Oct 2, 2008
553
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That 2.5 rule is new for me, but its really true when looking at badlands, granary and well. But Yukon fails horribly, because it only has one main route and the capture point is in the middle of a pit. Though, on the valve maps there are only 2 medium ammopacks and 2 medium healthpacks and 2 small healthpacks. So i dont think the lots of health/ammo is true.

I don't know, I can match the bullets very well to Yukon. The cap point might not be raised, but it's big and visible, has a long capture time, a good amount of health and ammo and it have the 2,5 routes
 

Jimmy

L420: High Member
Jul 6, 2009
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The cap doesn't neccesarily need to be raised, Coldfronts cap is only slightly raised. As long at the area around the cap makes combat flow towards the point and allow flanking to either be easy with little reward or harder with greater reward. Yukon is a good example. Its lack of multiple routes isn't a bad thing, as the bridge in mid allows you to get cover, health, flank AND cover the point to an extent. The fact that the cap is in the ditch is that the slope of the land draws players down towards the cap, and the fact thats its in the smack bang middle of the way to the next cp anyway.
 

Icarus

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Sep 10, 2008
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Even if it's slightly raised, it lets spam just roll off it. Yukon's mid isn't so great, because trying to cap is suicide, since the ditch funnels all the spam from all sides onto it.
 
Nov 14, 2009
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Wasnt he talking about moving the cap to the bridge, or was it there before?

Then it would fit all the rules that Icarus outlined before.
 

Icarus

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Sep 10, 2008
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They're not rules, rather just guidelines :|

But yeah, Mangy was kind of torn between putting it on the bridge or in the ditch before going official. Neither of which I was particularly fond of.
 

Ninjilla

L420: High Member
Sep 13, 2008
445
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I would assume if you used the guidelines, Yukon's middle CP would need a re-design as the bridge's small area would attract spam. But even then, Its more suggestions for a nice, playable point, not a definite rule.
 

h3r1n6

L4: Comfortable Member
Sep 7, 2009
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Longest mid-fight I played was on yukon, it just got boring and it repeats every round. Each team on one side, can't really push the enemy team anywhere but over the point, but the low ground position is so bad, that capping is hardly feasible in most situations.

Coldfront for example is much better.