Potential training mode project

Dr. Spud

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Mar 23, 2009
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So after reading that thread Icarus started, the first thing that came to mind was, "Cool, everyone wants to work on training mode to get it finished fast." The second thought was, "Oh god all the training maps will be completely inconsistent."

So I thought up an idea that would make training mode really cool. I emailed Robin about it (because it's the hip thing to do nowadays):
I got the word from a TF2Maps post that you're looking for the community to work on training maps. I know of a great way to incorporate all the classes into a consistent set of maps!

Are you familiar with Perfect Dark 64, and its training missions? In that game, there was a set of optional training missions on each gadget in the game. They all started from one room, and as you completed each gadget one at a time more paths would open up branching from that room. Each gadget required a new location to be used properly, but this set-up kept all those locations within a short distance of the player, and the fact that it was all in one training facility felt really slick.

Obviously copying the Perfect Dark training wholesale would be silly. But it's an idea I haven't seen emulated since then, and the gist of it would translate very well to TF2. The current tr_target has a big, iconic warehouse where the player starts. Certain classes (eg sniper) could use a modified version of that room, but other classes (eg pyro) need a space of their own. It would be really cool to start the player in that room regardless of class, and have a set of doors on the side walls for classes that need to travel to a special room. It avoids the obvious problem of community-made training maps, which could result in a patchwork of stylistically-inconsistent training missions that could rub new players the wrong way.

For instance a pyro training could start you in the same place as the soldier, but after a brief instruction open a gate in front of you to let you burn down the targets. Then it would open a door on the side wall and say, "go here to learn about corner ambushing" or something, and the mission would continue in there.

I don't know what the TF2 team had in mind with the training mode, but what do you think of that set-up? If you like the idea I could modify tr_target to accommodate it and get some TF2Maps members to build off of it.

Is anyone else interested in making this happen? Assuming Robin doesn't respond saying it's terrible, we could make a whole project out of it, and have a few older members oversee it to get all 8 other classes up to the same level of quality. Then we send the pack to Valve, and profit! Plus the end result is a training mode that isn't like I said in the email, a patchwork.
 

Trotim

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Jul 14, 2009
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So basically, the weapon switching/hitting targets training is repeated for each class, but after that it checks which class you are and opens certain doors of the warehouse that lead to e.g. a dedicated rocketjumping room?
 

Seba

DR. BIG FUCKER, PHD
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Jun 9, 2009
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Meh, if this was well organised, it doesn't sound like a bad idea. Unfortunately, training maps don't appeal to me at all, so I won't create any. I'd be more than happy to provide feedback to other authors' tr_ maps though.
 

Dr. Spud

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So basically, the weapon switching/hitting targets training is repeated for each class, but after that it checks which class you are and opens certain doors of the warehouse that lead to e.g. a dedicated rocketjumping room?

We could do that, or make the initial target training shorter if a class needs a special room. I guess it depends on what makes the most sense when we play.

Also I'd imagine the training logic isn't smart enough to train all classes without a map switch, so we could have a different layout for the target training with different classes. The nice thing is switching to a map that uses all the same assets would be super-quick.
 
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Penguin

Clinically Diagnosed with Small Mapper's Syndrome
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May 21, 2009
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Pyro training is impossible cause stupid source can't detect flame damage on breakables.

So you gotta use bots.
 

HeaH

L8: Fancy Shmancy Member
Oct 2, 2008
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Admins should work their magic and get an official training campaign competition, now that Polycount has a modeling contest!
 

Firest0rm

L4: Comfortable Member
Sep 27, 2009
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Pyro training is impossible cause stupid source can't detect flame damage on breakables.

So you gotta use bots.

pyro training is possible, you just might not be able to tell if the pyro actually fires the flamethrower. You can detect when the player switches to a certain weapon in the training mode, so you could have it detect when you switch to flamethrower, then wait a second. It's pretty much impossible to miss with the flamethrower anyway, so new players would only need to know when to switch

also, it may be possible to use witchcraft to detect pyro flame. If i understand source correctly, everything has to be an entity of some sort. That would mean that flame particles would be an entity, and you would be able to detect them with a trigger and a filter

EDIT: i would love to help with this, if help is needed
 
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Owlruler

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Dec 10, 2008
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Also, in a side note, never use commas in a training message. All the text after the comma is cut off.
 

YM

LVL100 YM
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Dec 5, 2007
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@penguin have you actually tried that recently?

the new filters added can detect primary/secondary/melee fire so I wouldn't be so sure that you can't detect flame damage now without testing it out.
 

Jakkarra

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Aug 26, 2009
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You could hack a bot so it has the Training target skin i guess, if that's possible.

Also: This would be something fun to help with, i can see a couple problems with certain classes, though.
 
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Jakkarra

L4: Comfortable Member
Aug 26, 2009
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I bet the Spy would have a great deal of freedom for it's training.

I'm also currently planning a set of training rooms for him :p.
 

lana

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I was going to make a training map for all classes that acted like a triathlon of racing, shooting, and other skills. Depending on the class you pick, areas will be blocked off, so for the soldier and demoman you'd have to rocket and sticky jump to advance. There's already particle effects for crossing a finish line that Valve hasn't used.
 

Dr. Spud

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Mar 23, 2009
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Here's what everyone working on training maps can do:

Make your separate training area for a class. Keep it a reasonably small size (remember that soldier training isn't an exhaustive process that goes over every possible thing). And try and keep the theme close to the original tr_target (since it's supposed to be in the same facility). Once you make it, I can organize getting it plugged in to the hub warehouse. And I'll try and a person or two to review the maps with me and get them to an equal level of quality.

Also, I thought about it some and I think these are the only classes that should have a new room:
-Pyro
-Scout
-Medic
-Engineer
-Spy

Demo, Heavy, and Sniper can all use modified versions of the main warehouse room.
 
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lana

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Demoman would need a lot of changes though. He has indirect attacks, delayed attacks, and only projectile weapons. He can't really train in the same way as the other classes without a lot of changes. The scout, however, doesn't have much to be taught other than movement tactics, and Valve hasn't indicated interest in teaching those.